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Old 01-06-2011, 03:45 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I mentioned him as an example of a wild Biblical story we are to take on face value. I was not seeking facts about him.
You misrepresented the facts concerning Elijah and then asked if I believe that what you misrepresented was believable.

I asked you to go back and read what the facts really are in the bible. You then took another stab int he dark and again got it wrong.

If you are going to use an example from the Bible to try to prove your point at least do us the favor of getting your facts straight to begin with.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You misrepresented the facts concerning Elijah and then asked if I believe that what you misrepresented was believable.

I asked you to go back and read what the facts really are in the bible. You then took another stab int he dark and again got it wrong.

If you are going to use an example from the Bible to try to prove your point at least do us the favor of getting your facts straight to begin with.

This is what I said:

Quote:
The Bible says that Elijah was caught up to heaven in a chariot of fire...
This is what the Bible says:

Quote:
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Ok, start splitting hairs that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the point I was trying to make. Whirlwind or chariot? Let's see how important this is in the bigger picture of the point I was trying to make in that the story, NO MATTER HOW HE TOOK OFF TO HEAVEN, is incredulous.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
This is what I said:



This is what the Bible says:



Ok, start splitting hairs that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the point I was trying to make. Whirlwind or chariot? Let's see how important this is in the bigger picture of the point I was trying to make in that the story, NO MATTER HOW HE TOOK OFF TO HEAVEN, is incredulous.

It sound like he got caught in a tornado. Sometimes when I hear about the rumbling from heaven (god's voice) and the whirlwinds in the Bible, that's what comes to mind.

A ship or a tornado.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:00 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
It sound like he got caught in a tornado. Sometimes when I hear about the rumbling from heaven (god's voice) and the whirlwinds in the Bible, that's what comes to mind.

A ship or a tornado.

You know THAT is a great thought. Not sure if the Middle East gets those things, but you raise a great possibility and perhaps the story became legend. For all we know, the writer believed he went to heaven, but he may have ended up in Tibet. lol
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
You know THAT is a great thought. Not sure if the Middle East gets those things, but you raise a great possibility and perhaps the story became legend. For all we know, the writer believed he went to heaven, but he may have ended up in Tibet. lol
Tibet, huh. That's kind of what I was thinking.

I mean, technically, if it was a tornado he lifted off into the heavens. And tornadoes can happen pretty much anywhere, but in the Middle East they are rare. It would have been pretty shocking if these people had never seen or heard about one before. But, some of the descriptions in the OT sound kind of like aircraft of some kind.


Anyhow, later in the Bible it says that no-one ever ascended into heaven but Christ. So...
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:21 PM
 
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[quote=InsaneInDaMembrane;17291867]This is what I said:



This is what the Bible says:

Quote:
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Quote:
Ok, start splitting hairs that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the point I was trying to make. Whirlwind or chariot? Let's see how important this is in the bigger picture of the point I was trying to make in that the story, NO MATTER HOW HE TOOK OFF TO HEAVEN, is incredulous.
First of all he didn't go to heaven. If you got a properly translated Bible you would note the whirlwind took him to the heavens. The heavens is not outer space where the stars are but is the atmosphere where the birds fly:
2Ki 2:11 And it comes to pass, they are going, going on and speaking, and
lo, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and they separate between them
both, and Elijah goes up in a whirlwind, to the heavens.

Gen 1:26 And saying is the Elohim, "Make will We humanity in Our image,
and according to Our likeness, and sway shall they over the fish of the
sea, and over the flyer of the heavens, and over the beast, and over all
land life, and over every moving animal moving on the land.

Elijah later wrote a letter as recorded in the Bible. So He did not go to heaven. And yes, he could have gone to Tibet. Just recently a tornado took a house apart and took the baby. Later the police found the baby a ways away from the home that used to be there and was still alive and in good health.

Chariots of fire and horses of fire? Sure, why not. There's stranger things out there that we don't understand with our modern minds.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:41 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Tibet, huh. That's kind of what I was thinking.

I mean, technically, if it was a tornado he lifted off into the heavens. And tornadoes can happen pretty much anywhere, but in the Middle East they are rare. It would have been pretty shocking if these people had never seen or heard about one before. But, some of the descriptions in the OT sound kind of like aircraft of some kind.


Anyhow, later in the Bible it says that no-one ever ascended into heaven but Christ. So...
Like many myths, perhaps there is basis for the story on a natural level.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Like many myths, perhaps there is basis for the story on a natural level.

Yep, but I swear some of those descriptions sound like a UFO. Or, if somebody really was seeing into the future and they saw wheels lifting up within wheels they could have been seeing an airplane. The thing takes off, it makes a bunch of noise, and the wheels lift and tuck into it's body.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:06 PM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Yep, but I swear some of those descriptions sound like a UFO. Or, if somebody really was seeing into the future and they saw wheels lifting up within wheels they could have been seeing an airplane. The thing takes off, it makes a bunch of noise, and the wheels lift and tuck into it's body.
I would not rule such things out. After all, if you can't explain it and have never seen it, it is "unidentified," right? Well, to you at least.

You know, it much have been very interesting to live in a world back then and see nature just go berserk at times and just sit their dumbfounded. Lacking scientific explanation, it probably came quite easy to attribute it to some great, mysterious entity creating havoc.
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Old 01-17-2011, 05:03 AM
 
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Also getting back to the Hebrews being in Egypt, I thought this was interesting:

Hebrews in Egypt - Slaves and Plagues - Extra-Biblical Proof!

Also there was a man by the name of William F. Albright who said that years ago the archeologists discovered some mumified alligators in Goshen, Egypt where the Hebrews were enslaved. The diggers were told to quit digging them up because they had to spend their money on more important digging. One of the workers smashed one of the alligators and found it was stuffed with receipts of work done and they were written in Hebrew from the Hebrews slaves. They gathered 12 baskets full of receipts from the gators.
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