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Old 01-04-2011, 05:55 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,204,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Mike,

you are again in error!which bible do you read? See the result of a lack of the Spirit?

Now go to acts and read the story of the Ethiopian eunuch and then come back
Yeah ... its really interesting how he must think that none of the early Christian believers knew God. They did not have the bible in the first few centuries(at least not as it exists today), and many of them were completely illiterate. So illiterate persons can never know God for themselves but must forever depend on who and what other people tell them God is?

Paul didn't have the bible, he wrote it(at least most of the new testament), did he know God? If he didn't then why did he think that he had the right to write the letters he did and why do we believe them to be truthful?

Why did John, in reference to the words of Christ, write ...


1 John 2:27
and you, the anointing that ye did receive from him, in you it doth remain, and ye have no need that any one may teach you, but as the same anointing doth teach you concerning all, and is true, and is not a lie, and even as was taught you, ye shall remain in him.

Mat 23:8
But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.


If it is the anointing which we receive individually from God that teaches us who God is, and not men ... Then what need have we really of anything other than him?

Of course the scriptures are good for inspiration and reproof, and we can certainly learn much from them, but they are not what it is that makes us to know God, that is the anointing spirit of Christ who is the living word of God.
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Old 01-04-2011, 06:42 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,047,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I am amazed, though not surprised, at the utter lack of even the most basic knowledge of Bible doctrine displayed by most believers, not only on this forum, but believers in general. Most believers are spiritually ignorant. And yet, the believer is commanded to 'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth'. The believer is commanded to 'grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ'. 2 Tim 2:15 and 2 Peter 3:18.

Well, probably the best thing I can do is to direct those who are interested in good solid basic fundamental Bible doctrine, to where they can get it. Some Christians are in Churches where the pastor is prepared and does teach sound doctrine. Most churches do not have such pastors.

So for those who are interested, here are some sound doctrinal churches. They are non-denominational, independent local churches.

Fundamentals : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX This takes you directly to the basics audio classes. Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX And this takes you to the home page for classes other than the basics.

Robert McLaughlin Bible Ministries / Grace Bible Church - bible doctrine truth in Christ

Grace Fellowship Church, Plainville, MA - Pastor Rickard

Class Catalog - Joe Griffin Media Ministries

Austin Bible Church Home Page

These are a few doctrinally sound churches which will be of great spiritual benefit to those who are positive toward the word of God.

Most people on this forum probably won't even bother to check them out. They won't even be interested. Some may feel inclined to make rude comments. But maybe someone somewhere will have found what they are looking for. I hope so.

Because of City-Data rules, I can't really give descriptions of these churches, so you will just have to go into them if you care to.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:47 PM
 
20,318 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Yeah ... its really interesting how he must think that none of the early Christian believers knew God. They did not have the bible in the first few centuries(at least not as it exists today), and many of them were completely illiterate. So illiterate persons can never know God for themselves but must forever depend on who and what other people tell them God is?

Paul didn't have the bible, he wrote it(at least most of the new testament), did he know God? If he didn't then why did he think that he had the right to write the letters he did and why do we believe them to be truthful?

Why did John, in reference to the words of Christ, write ...


1 John 2:27
and you, the anointing that ye did receive from him, in you it doth remain, and ye have no need that any one may teach you, but as the same anointing doth teach you concerning all, and is true, and is not a lie, and even as was taught you, ye shall remain in him.

Mat 23:8
But you are not to be called rabbi (teacher), for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.


If it is the anointing which we receive individually from God that teaches us who God is, and not men ... Then what need have we really of anything other than him?

Of course the scriptures are good for inspiration and reproof, and we can certainly learn much from them, but they are not what it is that makes us to know God, that is the anointing spirit of Christ who is the living word of God.
The early church had the scriptures. Do not confuse the fact that all the New Testament Epistles were not assembled together into one book with the fact that the letters which were written by the Apostles were written during the first century and circulated individually to the various churches.

The Apostles and those who were associated with them who wrote the New Testament Epistles wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brought to the remembrance of the apostles those things which they had been taught by Jesus. John 14:26. Of course they knew God.

People who could not read could still hear and learn from the apostles and from the pastors of their church those things which were written in the letters which went into the New Testament.

The Holy Spirit does not teach anyone anything apart from the study of the doctrines contained in the written word. The early church had the teachings of the apostles who recorded in writing those things which they taught. The pastors of a church could certainly read. They would teach to their congregations those doctrines that were contained and which were to be contained in the letters. The same letters which comprise our New Testament.

In using 1 John 2:7 and Matthew 23:8, you are using Scripture to attempt to minimize the importance of Scripture.

1 John 2:27 was written as a warning against false teachers. It was not intended to minimize the importance of the pastor/teacher. It was not intended to mean that the very scriptures of which the verse is a part of are not necessary.

As for Matthew 23:8, here is some excellent commentary on the reason why Jesus told the disciples not to seek the titles for themselves. http://biblecommenter.com/matthew/23-8.htm

The Bible is the written word of God. And dismissing the Bible is dismissing God because it is dismissing what He communicated to man.

Matthew 4:4 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word which proceeds from the mouth of God.

That which proceeded out of the mouth of God is contained in His written word. The Holy Bible. The Holy Spirit enables the believer to understand what is contained in the Scriptures and transfer the doctrines of the word of God into his soul where as 2 Tim 3:16 says, 'All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17] that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

There are certain people who would relegate as unimportant that which contains the very message to man that God put into His written word. An attempt to discredit the importance of the Bible is an attack on the Bible. And it is an attack upon God.

Woe to those who listen to such people.

2 Tim 3:14 'You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them; 15] and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-04-2011 at 08:47 PM..
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:42 PM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,258,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

It is up to those who study the word of God to be objective. Not subjective.
I believe you are too invested in your interpretation to be objective, and I surmise those with diametrically different interpretations suffer from the same nearsightedness.

Can you recognize how disturbing both sides appear when viewed from the perspective of one without a dog in this fight?
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:52 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,204,102 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The early church had the scriptures. Do not confuse the fact that all the New Testament Epistles were not assembled together into one book with the fact that the letters which were written by the Apostles were written during the first century and circulated individually to the various churches.

The Apostles and those who were associated with them who wrote the New Testament Epistles wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brought to the remembrance of the apostles those things which they had been taught by Jesus. John 14:26. Of course they knew God.

People who could not read could still hear and learn from the apostles and from the pastors of their church those things which were written in the letters which went into the New Testament.

The Holy Spirit does not teach anyone anything apart from the study of the doctrines contained in the written word. The early church had the teachings of the apostles who recorded in writing those things which they taught. The pastors of a church could certainly read. They would teach to their congregations those doctrines that were contained and which were to be contained in the letters. The same letters which comprise our New Testament.

In using 1 John 2:7 and Matthew 23:8, you are using Scripture to attempt to minimize the importance of Scripture.

1 John 2:27 was written as a warning against false teachers. It was not intended to minimize the importance of the pastor/teacher. It was not intended to mean that the very scriptures of which the verse is a part of are not necessary.

As for Matthew 23:8, here is some excellent commentary on the reason why Jesus told the disciples not to seek the titles for themselves. Matthew 23:8 Bible Commentary

The Bible is the written word of God. And dismissing the Bible is dismissing God because it is dismissing what He communicated to man.

Matthew 4:4 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word which proceeds from the mouth of God.

That which proceeded out of the mouth of God is contained in His written word. The Holy Bible. The Holy Spirit enables the believer to understand what is contained in the Scriptures and transfer the doctrines of the word of God into his soul where as 2 Tim 3:16 says, 'All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17] that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

There are certain people who would relegate as unimportant that which contains the very message to man that God put into His written word. An attempt to discredit the importance of the Bible is an attack on the Bible. And it is an attack upon God.

Woe to those who listen to such people.

2 Tim 3:14 'You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them; 15] and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

In the first few centuries the new testament letters were not in heavy circulation, especially not at the end of the first century, its not like they had a printing press. Its not as if every Christian had a compilation of all the letters written sitting at home on their coffee tables in those days.

And after Rome made Christianity the state religion, the reading of the scriptures was outlawed to all but for the clergy. It was illegal, upon pain of death, to own a copy of the scriptures in the dark ages, as well as in the first few centuries when Christians were being persecuted for the faith.

So all those Christians who never were even allowed to read the scriptures were never able to know God according to you mike?

That is a load of bull ...

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-04-2011 at 09:01 PM..
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:04 PM
 
20,318 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
I believe you are too invested in your interpretation to be objective, and I surmise those with diametrically different interpretations suffer from the same nearsightedness.

Can you recognize how disturbing both sides appear when viewed from the perspective of one without a dog in this fight?
Truth is what it is. And truth is absolute. I am quite objective about the word of God. How others respond or react to the truth is their responsibility. I can only present it. I can't make anyone believe it. That is up to them.

And I will never dilute the truth. Those who truly seek the truth will not run from it.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:25 PM
 
20,318 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
In the first few centuries the new testament letters were not in heavy circulation, especially not at the end of the first century, its not like they had a printing press. Its not as if every Christian had a compilation of all the letters written sitting at home on their coffee tables in those days.

And after Rome made Christianity the state religion, the reading of the scriptures was outlawed to all but for the clergy. It was illegal, upon pain of death, to own a copy of the scriptures in the dark ages, as well as in the first few centuries when Christians were being persecuted for the faith.

So all those Christians who never were even allowed to read the scriptures were never able to know God according to you mike?

That is a load of bull ...
The letters were circulated to the churches. The pastor would take selected passages and write them on what are called lexionaries and use them in his message to his congregation. One pastor teaching to x number of people. People would gather to hear Bible teaching from the pastor.

Do you understand? What is in the Bible is taught to a number of people who have gathered together for the purpose of learning. once the printing press was invented, then many more people had personal access to a Bible. But the scriptures were available to the church in the first century.

Yes, the Roman Catholic church forbade the ownership of the Bible. And yes, people suffered spiritually because they did not have access to the scriptures. There was great spiritual darkness at that time. Apart from having access to the scriptures, in some form or another, there is no way to learn about God or about the doctrines which pertain to the church.

Now today, most believers still don't know much about God because they don't study the word. God does not teach anyone about Him through osmosis. It requires decisions on the part of the believer to expose himself to sound doctrinal teaching.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:33 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,204,102 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The letters were circulated to the churches. The pastor would take selected passages and write them on what are called lexionaries and use them in his message to his congregation. One pastor teaching to x number of people. People would gather to hear Bible teaching from the pastor.

Do you understand? What is in the Bible is taught to a number of people who have gathered together for the purpose of learning. once the printing press was invented, then many more people had personal access to a Bible. But the scriptures were available to the church in the first century.

Yes, the Roman Catholic church forbade the ownership of the Bible. And yes, people suffered spiritually because they did not have access to the scriptures. There was great spiritual darkness at that time. Apart from having access to the scriptures, in some form or another, there is no way to learn about God or about the doctrines which pertain to the church.

Now today, most believers still don't know much about God because they don't study the word. God does not teach anyone about Him through osmosis. It requires decisions on the part of the believer to expose himself to sound doctrinal teaching.
I believe that you are all mixed up mike, and that you are living in a fantasy world of your own traditional fundamentalist indoctrination.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,383,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The letters were circulated to the churches. The pastor would take selected passages and write them on what are called lexionaries and use them in his message to his congregation. One pastor teaching to x number of people. People would gather to hear Bible teaching from the pastor.

Do you understand? What is in the Bible is taught to a number of people who have gathered together for the purpose of learning. once the printing press was invented, then many more people had personal access to a Bible. But the scriptures were available to the church in the first century.

Yes, the Roman Catholic church forbade the ownership of the Bible. And yes, people suffered spiritually because they did not have access to the scriptures. There was great spiritual darkness at that time. Apart from having access to the scriptures, in some form or another, there is no way to learn about God or about the doctrines which pertain to the church.

Now today, most believers still don't know much about God because they don't study the word. God does not teach anyone about Him through osmosis. It requires decisions on the part of the believer to expose himself to sound doctrinal teaching.
People don't understand God because they've been programmed to believe the Bible says something it doesn't say. And we still have to have teachers explain it to us. And they are still lying. The system is still going strong. And we are all still in the dark.

Whats-his-face imagined everybody owning a Bible so they could read if for themselves, but the men who wanted control popped right in (and they called themselves Reformers) and took the Bible away. They made schools and they made more doctrines, and they told the people what to believe, yet again. Nothing changed.

The only reason we got out of the dark ages was because people fought the church and were willing to die to say the church lied (You wouldn't have light bulbs today if some of these guys hadn't gotten angry).

Well, we're angry, again.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:37 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,204,102 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
People don't understand God because they've been programmed to believe the Bible says something it doesn't say. And we still have to have teachers explain it to us. And they are still lying. The system is still going strong. And we are all still in the dark.

Whats-his-face imagined everybody owning a Bible so they could read if for themselves, but the men who wanted control popped right in (and they called themselves Reformers) and took the Bible away. They made schools and they made more doctrines, and they told the people what to believe, yet again. Nothing changed.

The only reason we got out of the dark ages was because people fought the church and were willing to die to say the church lied (You wouldn't have light bulbs today if some of these guys hadn't gotten angry).

Well, we're angry, again.
Its time to chase the moneychangers out of the temple, again ...
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