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Old 01-05-2011, 01:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So Mike you reject the account of the 2 men on the road to Emmaus ?, that it was God who opened their eyes to see and recognize him, that prior to recognizing him, their hearts were burning within them as he spoke to them, which clearly precedes us having our eyes opened and recognizing him.

What about this verse of scripture ?

For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ . 2 Cor 4:6

Do you understand from this one verse alone, it is absolutely clear that He(God) made it all happen ?

Do you really believe anyone would deny the good news,in light of what this scripture is saying.

You have not proven in the slightest that God gave us the New Testament for our growth.There is a scripture in Hebrews 1, that tells us, in these last days as spoken to us by His son, not by the bible.

I will ask you again could the believer grow in the grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, before Peter wrote those words down in an epistle ?.If so, how ?
As I said, when the gospel is given, the Holy Spirit makes the gospel understandable to the hearer of the gospel through His ministry of common grace. It is then up to the hearer to make a decision concerning Christ.

People are constantly denying the Gospel. Go to the religion and philosophy forum and give the gospel. See the responses you get. During the Millennium, as it progresses, there will be people who reject Christ even though He is on the earth ruling from the throne of David.

Whether you want to believe the importance of the New Testament Scriptures or not, as well as the rest of the Bible, is your affair. Believe what you want.

I have already answered your questions in the prior post. Go back and read with comprehension.

Last edited by Mike555; 01-05-2011 at 01:50 PM..
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As I said, when the gospel is given, the Holy Spirit makes the gospel understandable to the hearer of the gospel through His ministry of common grace. It is then up to the hearer to make a decision concerning Christ.

People are constantly denying the Gospel. Go to the religion and philosophy forum and give the gospel. See the responses you get. During the Millennium, as it progresses, there will be people who reject Christ even though He is on the earth ruling from the throne of David.

Whether you want to believe the importance of the New Testament Scriptures or not, as well as the rest of the Bible, is your affair. Believe what you want.

I have already answered your questions in the prior post. Go back and read with comprehension.
Do you really believe God can so shine is light in our hearts, for us to deny it, the truth is a man cannot see or hear God until he shines his light in our heart. This verse is an unveiling of who he is to the recipient, not a choice put forth to him.

For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ . 2 Cor 4:6

You have not answered my question in regards to growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. was it possible to do so before Peter penned it, or did his words only become effective once penned ?.
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Do you really believe God can so shine is light in our hearts, for us to deny it, the truth is a man cannot see or hear God until he shines his light in our heart. This verse is an unveiling of who he is to the recipient, not a choice put forth to him.

For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness," made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Christ . 2 Cor 4:6

You have not answered my question in regards to growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. was it possible to do so before Peter penned it, or did his words only become effective once penned ?.
I have indeed answered the question. Before and as the scriptures were being written, doctrine was communicated by the apostles and by prophets who were given the knowledge by God the Holy Spirit, to the local churches. It is the content of the word of God, whether spoken or written that needs to be communicated.

God makes the issue of salvation known through the gospel. And the gospel message was given from the time that Adam sinned.

John 1:4 'In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5] And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

God shines His light. Some will respond. Many will not.

Again. Believe what you will.

I invite you to avail yourself of the sound doctrinal teaching provided in the sources on the first post of this thread.
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:33 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I invite you to avail yourself of the sound doctrinal teaching provided in the sources on the first post of this thread.
Mike i will trust my better judgement and believe that you are a reflection of the sources, so no thanks.
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Old 01-05-2011, 06:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
The issue is not directly addressed. However, because God is just and fair, He does not hold those who are unable to even conceive of His existence responsible to make a decision that they cannot make. Because of the work of Christ on the cross, babies and people who are so mentally incapacitated that they have not reached the point of God consciousness are automatically saved. (Not referring to those who are mentally ill, but to those who never developed sufficiently mentally [mental retardation] to be able to come to conceive of the concept and existence of a supreme being).



The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment See post #97.



The soul is immortal. The body is not. It is God's plan that the body will be resurrected to immortality. The body will be resurrected immortal and incorruptable. 1 Cor 15:50-54



The Bible emphasizes birth as the beginning of human life as opposed to the biological life which exists in the womb. Such passages as Ecc 3:2; Isa 9:6; Mathew 11:11; Luke 2:10-11 show this.

The angels rejoiced at the birth of Jesus. Not at His conception Luke 2:7-14.

Job presents a number of passages which speak of birth as the beginning of human life. Job 3:11; Job 14:1, Job 15:14; Job 38:21

There are several passages which because they are misunderstood cause some to falsely believe that the Bible teaches human life in the womb.

One such passage is Luke 1:15 ''For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor; and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, while yet in his mother's womb''

People see this verse and think that if John is filled with the Holy Spirit while still in his mother's womb, then there must be human life in the womb.

But in the Greek the passage doesn't say that.

pneumatos agiou plēsthēsetai eti ek koilias metros
Spirit of Holy yet he will be filled from womb of mother.

koilias - womb is preceded by 'ek' which means 'out from' and connotes separation.

The verse is actually saying that at birth, John the baptist will be filled with the Holy Spirit. Not that he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while still in the womb.

There is more that can be said on the subject. But I'll leave it at this for now.

Mike sorry it took so long to get back to you but between work and family sometime I don't catch up for a couple of days.

I agree the Bible does not directly address what will happen to the babies and mentally infirm and we have to trust in God who is fair to take proper care of them and I know we disagree on how he will do that but thats ok.

As to immoral soul, no where in the Bible will you find the two words connected. We do not have a Immortal soul. That was Satin's first lie that Adam and Eve would not die if they ate from the tree, when God told Adam and Eve if they ate from the tree they would die. Did Satin lie or did God?

"And the serpent (Satan) said unto the woman: "You will NOT surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will become as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4,5

This is the
FIRST GREAT DECEPTION; Satan said "If you sin, you WON'T die, instead you will become as gods!" This is still the theme, AND the continuing DECEPTION, of the New Age Religion!



John 11:11-14 Jesus compares death to sleep. The Bible compares death to sleep over 50 times.

Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10 The dead don't know anything.

Ps. 6:5 In death there is no remembrance of God.

Gen 2:7 Dust + Breath = A living soul (a person). This is the essence of creation. The soul is not a separate entity from the body.

Job 27:3 The Spirit is the same as God's breath of life or His power.

Ps. 146:4 Reverse of creation: Breath ceases, the body returns to dust and the thoughts (the essence of a living soul) perish.

Eccl. 12:7 The body returns to dust and the spirit (breath) returns to God.

Ps. 146:3,4 When the breath (spirit) returns to God, the thoughts perish.

Ps. 115:17 The dead do not praise God.

1 Cor. 15:51-54 We receive immortality when Jesus comes again.

Acts 2:34 David did not ascend to heaven at death, but awaits the coming of Jesus and the first resurrection.

1 Tim. 6:16 Human beings do not have immortality, only God does.

Job 19:25,26 The righteous will be resurrected to see God at the Last day.

John 5:28,29 Where are the people who come forth in the resurrection? They are now in the graves.

Rom 6:23 The wages of sin is death.

Ezekiel 18:4 The soul (person) who sins will die.

1 Tim. 4:7,8 The apostle Paul waited the coming of the Lord for his final reward.

Gen. 3:3,4 The first great deception: "You won't die!"

John 14:2,3 "I go to prepare a place for you. And I will come to get you and take you where I am." Why does He have to come and get them if they are already in heaven?

1 Thess 4:16-18 Why do the righteous dead have to rise at the resurrection if they're already in heaven?

Acts 17:31 The world will be judged on an "appointed day." You can't go to heaven until God makes a judgment on your case. Obviously it doesn't happen when each person dies.

Rev. 20:12 Why is there a FUTURE judgment if everyone is already in heaven or hell?
They must have been "judged" already on an individual basis at the moment they died.
But that is not Biblical (see previous text).

Rom. 2:7 Why do we "seek for immortality" if we already are immortal?

John 11:23,24 Mary and Martha were Jesus' closest friends on earth, other than His disciples. What was their understanding about where Lazarus was in death and when he would be resurrected?

John 11:43,44 If Lazarus was already in heaven why would Jesus resurrect him back to this earth? That would be cruel!

John 20: 11-18 Jesus did NOT go to heaven immediately at death!


The Bible uses the word "soul" approximately 1600 times, but NEVER ONCE does it use the expression "immortal soul." The word mortal means subject to death. The word immortal means NOT subject to death.

When we die, we sleep in the grave until we are resurrected. The righteous dead will be resurrected when Jesus comes. Those who died without knowing Jesus will be resurrected for the Judgment after the Millennium.


These verses show that we die because of sin, not just our bodies but all of us and we go to the same place at the animals-SHEOL the unseen or unperceived and that means we can't see it and when we are there we perceive nothing.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:53 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sschulz View Post
Mike sorry it took so long to get back to you but between work and family sometime I don't catch up for a couple of days.

I agree the Bible does not directly address what will happen to the babies and mentally infirm and we have to trust in God who is fair to take proper care of them and I know we disagree on how he will do that but thats ok.

As to immoral soul, no where in the Bible will you find the two words connected. We do not have a Immortal soul. That was Satin's first lie that Adam and Eve would not die if they ate from the tree, when God told Adam and Eve if they ate from the tree they would die. Did Satin lie or did God?

"And the serpent (Satan) said unto the woman: "You will NOT surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will become as gods, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3:4,5

This is the
FIRST GREAT DECEPTION; Satan said "If you sin, you WON'T die, instead you will become as gods!" This is still the theme, AND the continuing DECEPTION, of the New Age Religion!



John 11:11-14 Jesus compares death to sleep. The Bible compares death to sleep over 50 times.


This simply refers to physical death. In death, the body looks as though it is asleep. It has nothing to do with the soul.

Quote:
Eccl. 9:5, 6, 10 The dead don't know anything.

Ps. 6:5 In death there is no remembrance of God.

These and similar passages simply mean that when a person dies, he has no more connection with the life on earth he left behind. At physical death, all of the plans and purposes that man has in this life come to an end. All of his projects and schemes which he was pursuing come to an end. And at physical death, a man can no longer praise God among the living. None of this has anything to do with the fact that the soul continues to live on after the body dies.

Remember that the book of Psalms is poetry which was set to music. The language is poetic.

As for Ecclesiastes, it was written by Solomon as a man under the sun. Solomon used that phrase a number of times in Ecclesiastes. He had turned his back on God and thought as an unbeliever would think. At this point in his life, Solomon could only think in terms of looking from birth to death. Solomon had forgotten that there is reward after death for the believer. The thoughts of Solomon in Ecclesiastes were not accurate. But God had Solomons thoughts at this time of his life recorded in the Scriptures as a warning of what happens when you turn away from God.


Quote:
Gen 2:7 Dust + Breath = A living soul (a person). This is the essence of creation. The soul is not a separate entity from the body.

To the contrary. The Bible states that man is composed of three separate parts. Body, soul, and human spirit.

1 Thes 5:23 'Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 4:12 'For the word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two edged sword, and piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Quote:
Job 27:3 The Spirit is the same as God's breath of life or His power.
As God breathed the breath of life into Adam, so also, God breathes the breath of life into everyone who is born. The body without the soul is just an empty house. The real person is the soul. Soul life plus biological life equals human life.

Though not always interchangable, there are instances in the Bible where soul and spirit are synonymous terms.

For instance, the same function may be ascribed to each.
Example:
Matthew 26:38 'Then He said to them, ''My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death...''

John 13:21 'When Jesus said this, He became troubled in spirit.


The departed are sometimes mentioned as soul and sometimes as spirit.
John 10:17 ''For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My Psuche - life, soul, breath.
Matthew 27:50 'And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His pneuma - spirit, wind, breath.

God is said to be soul:
Hebrews 10:38 ''BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL - PSUCHE HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

God is said to be Spirit:
John 4:24 ''God is Spirit - pneuma, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''

When techical distinctions are in view the terms soul and Spirit are not interchangeable.

Example:
Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.'' In this passage spirit could not be substituted for soul.

Romans 8:10 'And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.' In this passage, soul could not be substituted for spirit.

Soul connotes that in the immaterial part of man which is related to life, action, emotion, whereas spirit is that part within man which is related to worship, communion, divine influence.


Quote:
Ps. 146:4 Reverse of creation: Breath ceases, the body returns to dust and the thoughts (the essence of a living soul) perish.

Eccl. 12:7 The body returns to dust and the spirit (breath) returns to God.

Ps. 146:3,4 When the breath (spirit) returns to God, the thoughts perish.

Ps. 115:17 The dead do not praise God.
Refer back to what I said earlier in this post concerning the Psalms and Ecclesiastes and passages such as this.

But yes, as Eccl 12:7 does correctly state, when the body dies, the human spirit of the believer (along with the soul) goes into the presence of God. Again, as the Bible shows, man consists of body, soul, and in the case of the believer, a human spirit.

The soul connotes that in the immaterial part of man which is related to life, action, and emotion. The human spirit is that part within man which is related to worship, communion with God, and divine influence.


Quote:
1 Cor. 15:51-54 We receive immortality when Jesus comes again.
This refers to the resurrection of the body. Not the soul.


Quote:
Acts 2:34 David did not ascend to heaven at death, but awaits the coming of Jesus and the first resurrection.
Before the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ, no one went to heaven, but instead went to Sheol/Hades. Believers went to the Paradise side, and unbelievers went to the torments side.

After the resurrection and ascension of Christ, Paradise was transferred from Hades into the third heaven. Paul speaks of this in 2 Corinthians 12:1-6. Paul had been taken to heaven. He didn't know if it had been in the body or out of the body. It may be that Paul might have actually momentarily died on the occasion when he had been stoned as recorded in Acts 14:19.
Paul had been taken up into heaven where he heard inexressible words. Paul speaks of being caught up into paradise in the third heaven.

Recall that Jesus had promised the thief that he would be with Him in Paradise that very day. This was when Paradise was still located in Hades.


Quote:
1 Tim. 6:16 Human beings do not have immortality, only God does.
There are two things to look at here. One is that only God has INTRINSIC immortality. But He gave immortality to the human soul. God created man in His image. This refers to a shadow image meaning that as God has real but invisible attributes, so also man's soul has real but invisible attributes, such as self-consciousness, conscience, mentality, emotion, volition. And immortality.

The other thing to look at here is that currently, Jesus Christ is the only member of the human race to have been resurrected. Therefore, only the body of Jesus Christ currently has immortalilty. Our bodies will be made immortal at the resurrection. Now, as God, Jesus' deity is immortal.

Quote:
Job 19:25,26 The righteous will be resurrected to see God at the Last day.
Absolutely. Resurrection always refers to the body. Not to the soul. The soul and human spirit rejoin the resurrected body.

Quote:
John 5:28,29 Where are the people who come forth in the resurrection? They are now in the graves.
Their bodies are in the grave. The real person- the soul, is in heaven. The soul of the unbeliever is in Torments in Hades.


Quote:
Rom 6:23 The wages of sin is death.
Yes. Both physical death and spiritual death are in view here. Physical death refers to the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death refers to the separation of the unbeliever from God in time.

God told Adam as recorded in Gen 2:17 'but from from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it, [literally] dying (spiritually) you shall die (physically). Adam died spiritually the moment he sinned. But he didn't die physically for over 900 years.


Quote:
Ezekiel 18:4 The soul (person) who sins will die.
It is true that if a person dies without receiving Christ as Savior, he will perish in hell. But perishing does not mean cessation of existance, but rather, it means that the unbeliever will spend etenity in hell in a state of ruin and eternal uselessness.

But within the context of Ezekiel, this passage is referring to temporal punishment rather than eternal punishment. One of the purposes of Ezekiels ministry was to keep before the generation of Jews who had been born in exile the national sins which had brought divine judgment on Israel. Ezekiel chapters 4-24 concerns warnings of national judgment upon Jerusalem. It has to do with obeying the commandments of God or facing being put to death.

Quote:
1 Tim. 4:7,8 The apostle Paul waited the coming of the Lord for his final reward.
Yes. At the coming of the Lord, the rapture of the church, church-age believers will stand before Jesus at the judgment seat of Christ in heaven to be evaluated for the purpose of reward (1 Cor 3:12-15; 2 Cor 5:10; Romans 14:10-12).

This has nothing to do with the reality that man's soul is immortal.

Quote:
Gen. 3:3,4 The first great deception: "You won't die!"
Yes. But it has to do with the fact that Adams sin would result in both spiritual and physical death. As already stated, physical death is separation of the soul from the body. Not the cessation of the existence of the soul.


Quote:
John 14:2,3 "I go to prepare a place for you. And I will come to get you and take you where I am." Why does He have to come and get them if they are already in heaven?

1 Thess 4:16-18 Why do the righteous dead have to rise at the resurrection if they're already in heaven?
Again, resurrection always has to do with the body. Not the soul. The soul simply rejoins the body which has been resurrected.


Quote:
Acts 17:31 The world will be judged on an "appointed day." You can't go to heaven until God makes a judgment on your case. Obviously it doesn't happen when each person dies.
To the contrary. Every believer goes immediately to heaven when he dies. At the rapture of the church, those who have died in Christ and are in heaven will return to the clouds where their bodies will be resurrected, while those believers who are alive on the earth at the time of the rapture will be caught up into the clouds, and will have their bodies transformed into a body of immortality (1 Thess 4:14-17). Notice that while the body of those who have died is in the ground, the soul of those who have died return with Christ from heaven. Then the entire resurrected church is taken up into heaven for the judgment seat of Christ.

Quote:
Rev. 20:12 Why is there a FUTURE judgment if everyone is already in heaven or hell?
They must have been "judged" already on an individual basis at the moment they died.
But that is not Biblical (see previous text).
There are in fact several different judgments. To mention three, there is the judgment seat of Christ for church-age believers after the rapture. This takes place in heaven.

Then when Jesus returns to the earth some seven years later, there is the judgment of the nations where all unbelievers will be ordered into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, while all believers will go into the Millennial kingdom of God (Matthew 25:31-46).

Then a thousand years later at the end of the Millennium, all unbelievers will be have their bodies resurrected and their souls will come up out of Hades to rejoin their bodies. They will then stand before Jesus at the Great White Throne judgment, at which time they will be sent away into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15).

Quote:
Rom. 2:7 Why do we "seek for immortality" if we already are immortal?
Again, while the soul is immortal, the body currently is not. At the resurrection, the immortal soul will enter into the resurrected immortal body.

Quote:
John 11:23,24 Mary and Martha were Jesus' closest friends on earth, other than His disciples. What was their understanding about where Lazarus was in death and when he would be resurrected?
In all cases, resurrection refers to the body. Not the soul. Whether or not Mary or Martha understood that the soul of Lazarus was in Paradise is irrevelent. They probably did realize that fact.

Quote:
John 11:43,44 If Lazarus was already in heaven why would Jesus resurrect him back to this earth? That would be cruel!
No it wasn't. The death of Lazarus and his resuscitation was for the glory of God. This was a miracle performed that those who were present when Lazarus was brought back to life would know that Jesus had been sent by God the Father.

Quote:
John 20: 11-18 Jesus did NOT go to heaven immediately at death!
When Jesus died, His spirit went into the presence of the Father (Luke 23:46), His soul went to Paradise in Hades (Luke 23:43; Eph 4:9), and His body went into the tomb (Luke 23:53).


Quote:
The Bible uses the word "soul" approximately 1600 times, but NEVER ONCE does it use the expression "immortal soul." The word mortal means subject to death. The word immortal means NOT subject to death.
It doesn't have to. The word Trinity isn't found in the Bible but the Bible shows that God is a Triune Being. The word Rapture isn't found in the Bible, but the Bible clearly shows that what we call the rapture is a reality.

Matthew 10:28 clearly shows that the soul survives the death of the body.

Matthew 10:28 'And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.'

As this passage shows, man can kill the body, but cannot kill the soul. The soul continues to exist after the body has died. Physical death is nothing more than the separation of the soul from the body.

Here is what Peter said about his upcomng death.

2 Peter 1:13 'And I consider it right, as long as I am in this earthly dwelling (refering to his body), to stir you up by way of reminder, 14] knowing that the laying aside of my earthly dwelling is imminent, as also our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15] And I will also be diligent that at any time after my departure you may be able to call these things to mind.

Peter speaks of being in his body. The 'I', the real person is in this earthly dwelling - the body. Peter speaks of the laying aside of his earthly dwelling and departing from it.

Quote:
When we die, we sleep in the grave until we are resurrected. The righteous dead will be resurrected when Jesus comes. Those who died without knowing Jesus will be resurrected for the Judgment after the Millennium.
Quote:

These verses show that we die because of sin, not just our bodies but all of us and we go to the same place at the animals-SHEOL the unseen or unperceived and that means we can't see it and when we are there we perceive nothing.

No, they do not. They are passages which are misunderstood by many, and as a result, many have believed in the false belief of soul sleep.

Please carefully read all that I have said with understanding.

Also, I have addressed this in posts #82, 103, and 134, in which I listed other passages not listed here.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:26 PM
 
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Here's where the problem comes in:

The parable of the prodigal Son is one of the loveliest parables in the gospels. Right up there with the one about the lost sheep. But when juxtaposed with Matthew 25, things go terribly wrong; or is it just me. I mean, here on one hand we have a father willing to take back his wayward son, all the filth and dirt notwithstanding, no questions asked. i.e. Did you clothe me? Did you feed me? Did you visit me in prison? That universal reconciliation. But then suddenly we are confronted with a father who says to his son, "I assure you I do not know you." "You wicked, lazy servant! Cast him into the outer darkness where he will weep, wait and gnash his teeth." And the worst of all: "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fires prepared for the devil and his minions!" That is eternal torment.

What are we to make of these glaring differences? It's like a Jeckyll and Hyde. Why are two images of God revealed---both 180 degrees diametrically opposed to each other? Does the fault like with Matthew? Or with those &^%$ translators who absolutely botched the beautiful scriptures beyond recognition?
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Germany
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So for those who are interested, here are some sound doctrinal churches. They are non-denominational, independent local churches.
and of course YOU decide what is sound doctrine and what is not? Who gave you the authority to determine this?
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by svenM View Post
and of course YOU decide what is sound doctrine and what is not? Who gave you the authority to determine this?
Listen to it or don't. It's your choice.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:59 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Here's where the problem comes in:

The parable of the prodigal Son is one of the loveliest parables in the gospels. Right up there with the one about the lost sheep. But when juxtaposed with Matthew 25, things go terribly wrong; or is it just me. I mean, here on one hand we have a father willing to take back his wayward son, all the filth and dirt notwithstanding, no questions asked. i.e. Did you clothe me? Did you feed me? Did you visit me in prison? That universal reconciliation. But then suddenly we are confronted with a father who says to his son, "I assure you I do not know you." "You wicked, lazy servant! Cast him into the outer darkness where he will weep, wait and gnash his teeth." And the worst of all: "Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fires prepared for the devil and his minions!" That is eternal torment.

What are we to make of these glaring differences? It's like a Jeckyll and Hyde. Why are two images of God revealed---both 180 degrees diametrically opposed to each other? Does the fault like with Matthew? Or with those &^%$ translators who absolutely botched the beautiful scriptures beyond recognition?
Absolutely Thrill, it is like Jekyll and Hyde, just completely contradicts itself doesn't it? Or does it? Not when you take into consideration, like you said, the fact that those dang translators botched it up so badly and that's why the contradictions and inconsistencies. HOWEVER, when you get the proper translations in your head of "hell", "eternal" and "everlasting".....oh and "fire".....it all starts to make sense.

Universal Reconciliation sense. The thing that those dang translators obviously didn't want anyone to glean from scriptures but it's still there, plain as day. Now that's miraculous, worthy of a "holy" book.
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