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Old 01-06-2011, 11:00 AM
 
351 posts, read 283,217 times
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Hi Mike Dont have time right now to respond to your answer to me but will try later. Do have one quick question to you or anyone else. I am new here been only about a month. How do I start a thread? I don't see a start a thread box on my screen anywhere. Thanks to anyone who can help.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:58 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,200,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sschulz View Post
Hi Mike Dont have time right now to respond to your answer to me but will try later. Do have one quick question to you or anyone else. I am new here been only about a month. How do I start a thread? I don't see a start a thread box on my screen anywhere. Thanks to anyone who can help.
Hey Sschulz ... On the main page where the different threads are listed, there is a button at the top and bottom of the thread list that says, "new thread". Click that to start a new thread ...

If you cant see the botton it may be a browser problem ...

Good luck ... !
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:23 PM
 
10,183 posts, read 10,549,080 times
Reputation: 3018
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Absolutely Thrill, it is like Jekyll and Hyde, just completely contradicts itself doesn't it? Or does it? Not when you take into consideration, like you said, the fact that those dang translators botched it up so badly and that's why the contradictions and inconsistencies. HOWEVER, when you get the proper translations in your head of "hell", "eternal" and "everlasting".....oh and "fire".....it all starts to make sense.

Universal Reconciliation sense. The thing that those dang translators obviously didn't want anyone to glean from scriptures but it's still there, plain as day. Now that's miraculous, worthy of a "holy" book.
Ilene, I would love more than anything to get my hands on the purest translation of the scriptures in existence. And I would love to know how much Matthew, in writing his gospel, allowed the fact that he was writing his account specifically for the Jews to influence the picture he was painting of Jesus and the Father. That was a little convoluted. Better explained: I'd read that Matthew was writing his account expressly for the Jewish population; is it possible his portrait of Jesus, especially in chapter 25, was deliberately skewed in order to scare the Jews into acceptance of Jesus as their Saviour? Or maybe He didn't say any of that at all. How do we know the whole hateful chapter wasn't added by some kooky ET'er in the emerging Catholic Apostolic religion circa 400 AD and just kept in there by all those hundreds of later translations? Note the foolish virgins were nowhere near as wicked as the prodigal son--they were just foolish, yet Jesus says to them, "I do not know you" and casts them into the outer darkness where they will wail and gnash their teeth for all eternity, according to the account (actually all three accounts in Chap. 25) On the other hand we have the Father saying to the prodigal, "I don't care what you've done, I don't care what you've not done, all that is forgotten, just come back to my house and let me receive you as my son again." How beautiful. (tears of joy) And how totally in line with the Good Shepherd parable.

I truthfully wish Matthew Chapter 25 would just go away because I don't believe it is an accurate description of what Jesus was really saying, or if He said any of it at all. Note, even Mike acknowledges that Ecclesiastes is coming from the pen of a fallen, reprobate Solomon in his last years. Surely no other book deserves less to be included in "Holy" scripture than Ecclesiastes. And yet there it is, included in the Bible when other much more inspired writings were excluded. You see how man just mucks up everything he touches? He couldn't even get the bible put together right. And Matthew chapter 25 is probably responsible for more people being turned off to the gospel (good news) of Jesus than any other writing in the history of mankind.

We do not have, best to my knowledge, a perfectly preserved copy of the original gospel of Matthew, do we? So can we really know how badly this particular gospel has been tampered with?
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,222 posts, read 14,105,516 times
Reputation: 10096
From the OP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I am amazed, though not surprised, at the utter lack of even the most basic knowledge of Bible doctrine displayed by most believers, not only on this forum, but believers in general. Most believers are spiritually ignorant. And yet, the believer is commanded to 'Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth'. The believer is commanded to 'grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ'. 2 Tim 2:15 and 2 Peter 3:18. ...
I agree - which is why I disappear from time to time - it gets frustrating.

I plan to do my part in my own way this year to put out solid biblical posts and hopefully help others (and myself) to lean more on Christ and learn more about Christ.
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,222 posts, read 14,105,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I truthfully wish Matthew Chapter 25 would just go away because I don't believe it is an accurate description of what Jesus was really saying, or if He said any of it at all.
It's not going away because He meant what He said.

The problem is not what He said, the problem is that 50% of the threads here focus on .0001% of what Christ said. Eternal punishment is not the focus of Jesus Christ. Eternal punishment is the focus of this forum - and there are doctrines based on whether there is or is not eternal punishment. This should not be the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Note, even Mike acknowledges that Ecclesiastes is coming from the pen of a fallen, reprobate Solomon in his last years. Surely no other book deserves less to be included in "Holy" scripture than Ecclesiastes. And yet there it is, included in the Bible when other much more inspired writings were excluded. You see how man just mucks up everything he touches? He couldn't even get the bible put together right. And Matthew chapter 25 is probably responsible for more people being turned off to the gospel (good news) of Jesus than any other writing in the history of mankind.

We do not have, best to my knowledge, a perfectly preserved copy of the original gospel of Matthew, do we? So can we really know how badly this particular gospel has been tampered with?
Ecclesiastes absolutely belongs in the Bible.

It is the best of the best (Solomon) describing the emptiness of life on earth without Christ.

I will be posting on this book hopefully later this month.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:15 PM
 
10,183 posts, read 10,549,080 times
Reputation: 3018
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Ecclesiastes absolutely belongs in the Bible.

It is the best of the best (Solomon) describing the emptiness of life on earth without Christ.

I will be posting on this book hopefully later this month.
Song of Solomon too, I suppose---an essentially pornographic "love" letter to one or maybe a dozen of his 10,000 or so concubines.

"Scholars" for centuries have been trying to find some justification for this essentially secular poem being in the Bible. They finally decided it was a love letter of Jesus to His Bride, the Church. Forgive me if I'm less than underwhelmed by that one.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:53 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Ilene, I would love more than anything to get my hands on the purest translation of the scriptures in existence. And I would love to know how much Matthew, in writing his gospel, allowed the fact that he was writing his account specifically for the Jews to influence the picture he was painting of Jesus and the Father. That was a little convoluted. Better explained: I'd read that Matthew was writing his account expressly for the Jewish population; is it possible his portrait of Jesus, especially in chapter 25, was deliberately skewed in order to scare the Jews into acceptance of Jesus as their Saviour? Or maybe He didn't say any of that at all. How do we know the whole hateful chapter wasn't added by some kooky ET'er in the emerging Catholic Apostolic religion circa 400 AD and just kept in there by all those hundreds of later translations? Note the foolish virgins were nowhere near as wicked as the prodigal son--they were just foolish, yet Jesus says to them, "I do not know you" and casts them into the outer darkness where they will wail and gnash their teeth for all eternity, according to the account (actually all three accounts in Chap. 25) On the other hand we have the Father saying to the prodigal, "I don't care what you've done, I don't care what you've not done, all that is forgotten, just come back to my house and let me receive you as my son again." How beautiful. (tears of joy) And how totally in line with the Good Shepherd parable.

I truthfully wish Matthew Chapter 25 would just go away because I don't believe it is an accurate description of what Jesus was really saying, or if He said any of it at all. Note, even Mike acknowledges that Ecclesiastes is coming from the pen of a fallen, reprobate Solomon in his last years. Surely no other book deserves less to be included in "Holy" scripture than Ecclesiastes. And yet there it is, included in the Bible when other much more inspired writings were excluded. You see how man just mucks up everything he touches? He couldn't even get the bible put together right. And Matthew chapter 25 is probably responsible for more people being turned off to the gospel (good news) of Jesus than any other writing in the history of mankind.

We do not have, best to my knowledge, a perfectly preserved copy of the original gospel of Matthew, do we? So can we really know how badly this particular gospel has been tampered with?
Ecclesiastes is as much a part of the word of God as every other book in the Bible. God included it for a reason. As I said, God recorded the words of Solomon to illustrate the way a person becomes when he turns away from God. By the way, Solomon recovered. He turned back to the Lord. He had never lost his salvation during the time that He was in reversionism.

There is nothing wrong with the Gospel of Matthew. Each of the gospels had a different emphasis.

Matthew presents Christ as King.

Mark presents Christ as a suffering servant and was written to a Gentile audience.

Luke presents Christ as the Son of Man - as man in his essential humanity.

John presents Christ as the Son of God. Emphasizing His deity.

There is nothing in the Gospels that was not intended to be there by the Holy Spirit who gave to the writers what they, in their own words, were to write.

Scripture is not false because you don't like what it says. It is all God-breathed.

There are thousands and thousands of manuscripts. Some Greek, some Latan, as well as other sources. There are many manuscripts that never got into the hands of the Catholic church. Though the science of Textual criticism in which all the different manuscripts are compared, it is possible to arrive at what the original manuscripts said. That is why we can be confident that we have God's recorded message to man.

Here is a thread I did on the realiability of our present day Bible.

Our present day translations of the Bible ARE reliable
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:55 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
It's not going away because He meant what He said.

The problem is not what He said, the problem is that 50% of the threads here focus on .0001% of what Christ said. Eternal punishment is not the focus of Jesus Christ. Eternal punishment is the focus of this forum - and there are doctrines based on whether there is or is not eternal punishment. This should not be the case.



Ecclesiastes absolutely belongs in the Bible.

It is the best of the best (Solomon) describing the emptiness of life on earth without Christ.

I will be posting on this book hopefully later this month.
Absolutely. Ecclesiastes is every bit as much of the word of God as the rest of the Bible.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:15 AM
 
351 posts, read 283,217 times
Reputation: 118
Hi Mike Finally able to respond to your post back to me.

I disagree that ressurection is only of the body and not the soul like you do. I believe that the soul that sins dies just like it says and that the ressurection is of the essence of us which is in SHEOL. the body doesn't go to sheol it is still in the physical world.

When God said you will die he did not say your body will die but you will live in spirit. When Moses dies God said my servent Moses is dead, not that my servant Moses is now with me.

If our soul is in heaven why do we need to come back and get a body that is physical, change it to a spiritual body when we are already with God? What are we just floating around heaven with no body or what.

When we die, we die no more thought or awareness, no more life, we are dead and our only hope is the resssurection brought about by the sacrifice of Christ Jesus our saviour.

Much as I might like to think we go straight to heaven I know we will sleep in sheol til Christ comes again. The good news is because there is no perseption in sheol, no sense of time. we will have our last thought before we die and the very next thing we will see will be Christ Jesus. no matter if it has been hundreds or thousands of years to us it will be the blink of an eye.
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Old 01-07-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,750,368 times
Reputation: 58198
Quote:
Originally Posted by sschulz View Post

Much as I might like to think we go straight to heaven I know we will sleep in sheol til Christ comes again. The good news is because there is no perseption in sheol, no sense of time. we will have our last thought before we die and the very next thing we will see will be Christ Jesus. no matter if it has been hundreds or thousands of years to us it will be the blink of an eye.
Yeah, I'd like to think that we go straight to heaven too but based on my own NDE that's not what I can believe. Some people who claim to have had NDE's say they all "saw a light" and talk about seeing people they know who have already passed on and the likes.....or talk about seeing "hell", which imo opinion are just unconscious dreams or nightmares.

My experience was total nothingness, until I was brought back to life. I could have been brought back 10 years from then and it would not have seemed like any time had passed at all. I believe like you do and I think there is enough scriptural support for it to be able to say without question that when we die, that's it, end of story until the resurrection.
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