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Old 01-03-2011, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,393,870 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
It is always just a matter of time until the URs come in and start cramming UR down every one's throats, no matter what the topic of the thread was.
Cramming UR or cramming facts. You can easily look this stuff up yourself.

Finn, the topic of the thread was: The Best Thing I Can Do For This Forum. If somebody is spreading lies, I like to let people know. It's an open forum. Anybody can post. Freedom, remember? There are plenty of other Christian sites that would be glad to have you, I'm sure.

(although those Christians fight and bicker like cats and dogs between themselves and there aren't any URs to be found among them)

You know what really gets me? We aren't fighting over pre-trib, post-trib, Calvinism, Arminianism, or any of the hundreds of other things Christians fight over. We are fighting over biblical FACTS. Not interpretations. Facts.

I'm stumped.

Last edited by herefornow; 01-03-2011 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,592,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Cramming UR or cramming facts. You can easily look this stuff up yourself.

Finn, the topic of the thread was: The Best Thing I Can Do For This Forum. If somebody is spreading lies, I like to let people know. It's an open forum. Anybody can post. Freedom, remember? There are plenty of other Christian sites that would be glad to have you, I'm sure.

(although those Christians fight and bicker like cats and dogs between themselves and there aren't any URs to be found among them)

You know what really gets me? We aren't fighting over pre-trib, post-trib, Calvinism, Arminianism, or any of the hundreds of other things Christians fight over. We are fighting over biblical FACTS. Not interpretations. Facts.

I'm stumped.
For sure. And I just want to thank everyone who takes the time to counter the ET lie each and every time it pops up here. I know from my own experience that those who expose the lies being peddled about God are not laboring in vain. And you probably recall the scripture that says some people do labor and worship God in vain, teaching as commandments and precepts the doctrines of men.

ET is a doctrine of demons. What could be more demonic than the doctrine of ET, really?
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:52 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 10,615,552 times
Reputation: 3098
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Please don't put words in my mouth and make assumptions about what I said. First of all, I am not Catholic. Second, babies and any person who dies without having come to the point of accountability, is automatically saved. God does not hold anyone accountable who is unable to even conceive of the existence of a supreme being. Third, human life begins at birth. Not at conception. There is biological life in the womb, but not soul life. The soul is immortal and God creates the soul and places it into the body at the moment of birth. The joining of soul life with biological life results in human life. In each and every instance, God breathes the breath of life, neshamah,- soul life, (Gen 2:7; Isa 42:5; Isa 57:16; Zech 12:1) at the point of birth.

Very briefly, there are two kinds of imputations. Real imputations and judicial imputations. A real imputation actually belongs to its recepient and requires a home to which it can be imputed.

The imputation of Adam's sin to every member of the human race is a real imputation. The reason is as follows. Adam's propensity to sin, that is, his old sin nature, is genetically passed down through the male through the sperm. It resides in the cell structure of the body. This is why Jesus had to be born via a virgin birth. When a person is born, the sin nature is the home to which God imputes Adam's original sin. When Adam's original sin is imputed to the sin nature spiritual death results. Spiritual death is separation from God in time. This means that a person is born as a dichotomous being. He is born with a body and soul, but without a human spirit. At the moment a person believes in Christ for salvation the Holy Spirit creates a human spirit and places it into the person who has believed. To the human spirit, God imputes His own eternal life. This is being born again - regeneration. At the same time, God also judicially imputes His righteousness to the believer. A judicial imputation has no rightful home to which it can be imputed and requires God to make a judicial decision. A judicial imputation emphasizes the function of divine justice rather than any connection between what is imputed and where it is imputed.

The imputation of man's personal sins to Jesus on the cross was a judicial imputation. Our personal sins did not rightfully belong to Jesus. But willing to be our substitute, Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the human race. A judicial imputation requires a judicial verdict. The justice of God the Father judged Jesus Christ in our place.
Okay. Again, I thank you for explaining your beliefs. This is just too above my head intellectually for me to comprehend, even after repeated reads.
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:56 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 10,615,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Those verses show us that the only sin that could have been upon all those before the law was that of Adam's transgression for the only law before that was the commandments to not eat of the forbidden fruit.
I'm confused (it's a common state of mind for me these days) What sins were the people pre-flood judged and destroyed for?
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Old 01-03-2011, 11:57 PM
 
10,238 posts, read 10,615,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
Great post, thrillobyte!
Thank you, herefornow.
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:29 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,779,416 times
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Perhaps the best thing I can do on this forum is to spread the word, the good news that Jesus is the Savior of ALL men, like the scriptures say:

1 Timothy 2:3-5

3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
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Old 01-04-2011, 12:43 AM
 
20,361 posts, read 15,750,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Okay, so according to you, the word "pneuma" in this verse only means breath?

While in every other place it means spirit literally?

Whatever it takes to make the scriptures fit your understanding.
What I am telling you is that either word, pneuma or psuche could have been used in the passage.

Though not always interchangable, there are instances in the Bible where soul and spirit are synonymous terms.

For instance, the same function may be ascribed to each.
Example:
Matthew 26:38 'Then He said to them, ''My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death...''

John 13:21 'When Jesus said this, He became troubled in spirit.


The departed are sometimes mentioned as soul and sometimes as spirit.
John 10:17 ''For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My Psuche - life, soul, breath.
Matthew 27:50 'And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His pneuma - spirit, wind, breath.

God is said to be soul:
Hebrews 10:38 ''BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL - PSUCHE HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM.

John 4:24 ''God is Spirit - pneuma, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.''

When techical distinctions are in view the terms soul and Spirit are not interchangeable.

Example:
Matthew 10:28 ''And do not fear those who kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.'' In this passage spirit could not be substituted for soul.

Romans 8:10 'And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.' In this passage, soul could not be substituted for spirit.

Soul connotes that in the immaterial part of man which is related to life, action, emotion, whereas spirit is that part within man which is related to worship, communion, divine influence.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:01 AM
 
20,361 posts, read 15,750,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Purely for the sake of discussion lets assume for a moment that the bolded part is correct. Are you sure that your interpretation is the correct one, after all, as you stated, you are also human, and also suffer from the malady of human nature
Yes. The Bible for one thing must be approached from a dispensational standpoint. Further, though there is figurative and allegorical language in the Scriptures, the Bible must be understood literally except when it is obvious that figurative lanquage is being used. And the figurative language itself refers to something which is literal. God intended His message to be understood. Moreover, I am objective. I don't reject something because I don't like it.

I have had the benefit of a pastor who truly was prepared to teach the word of God in an isagogical, categorical and exegetical manner. He was very knowledgeable in the original lanquages.

I'm not claiming that I know everything. But I do know what I know. And I am dogmatic about it where the scriptures allow it.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:18 AM
 
20,361 posts, read 15,750,587 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
My comments are linked to what you have also stated in this thread about babies. It is not off topic at all. When someone takes the position of declaring truth, then they are subject to question and that is the right of a believer to question and point out problems with what another believer claims is truth. That is from scripture so deal with it as a believer.

This is one sad state in most churches is that there is the underlying problem of questioning what a church teaches as if it is wrong and it absolutely is not.

You take a scriptural position of truth concerning automatic salvation of a human being and have stated that you cannot support it with scripture. But you invoke the right to make a safe assumption, there is nothing false there, you know good and well you said it.

Since you stated in this thread that babies automatically are saved if they die, now is your chance to demonstrate it with scripture. Otherwise, those human beings are subject to being born inherantly into sin and subject to Gods judgment when they die regardless of their age or state of knowledge judged by another human being.


Are you now denying that you made this "safe assumption" because you could not scripturally support it?
I don't deny what I said at all. I told you that your statement in your other post is false.

Here is what you do. You post the link to the thread and the post number concerning what I said, on this thread, and everyone can see what I said and can draw their own conclusions. Simple.
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Old 01-04-2011, 01:26 AM
 
16,301 posts, read 24,328,478 times
Reputation: 8272
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Yes. The Bible for one thing must be approached from a dispensational standpoint. Further, though there is figurative and allegorical language in the Scriptures, the Bible must be understood literally except when it is obvious that figurative lanquage is being used. And the figurative language itself refers to something which is literal. God intended His message to be understood. Moreover, I am objective. I don't reject something because I don't like it.

I have had the benefit of a pastor who truly was prepared to teach the word of God in an isagogical, categorical and exegetical manner. He was very knowledgeable in the original lanquages.

I'm not claiming that I know everything. But I do know what I know. And I am dogmatic about it where the scriptures allow it.
Just being the devils advocate here but that pastor, also human, also subject to different interpretations, as you say, that's human nature.

It may have made a great deal of sense, he may have been an outstanding teacher, but there comes that human nature part again. Someone with diametrically different interpretations may feel exactly the same about the pastor they learned from, and felt their pastor was truly prepared.

This is part of the reason as an Atheist I sit and marvel at the squabbling from christians that are supposed to be reading from the same book. It also amplifies the danger of giving too much value to your bible, as it is clearly used as a tool to push forward preconceived ideas and agendas.

Normally one would say that only one side can be right, but what if neither is right?
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