U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-07-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: South Jordan, Utah
6,652 posts, read 7,137,466 times
Reputation: 2840

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
o comon' now....I was hoping for some thoughts here...

??? any???
We are busy counting stars. BRB.

 
Old 01-07-2011, 11:24 AM
 
3,056 posts, read 2,272,654 times
Reputation: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Herefornow,
I think with fundamentalist Christians, you're always dealing with a double standard because while they damn the whole world to hell on a regular basis, they never hesitate to say that all their mistakes, sins, fibs, etc... are covered, or as many of them like to say, "under the blood"..... So the blood of Jesus is handy for them to say anything they like or act anyway they want, whereas they count that same blood as unworthy for those who don't know what they believe. Pretty incredible is it not?
oh my Lord you are so correct. this total assesment you have offered is right on par. i kid you not...i have been, publicly/on the job, rebuked twice! all the the while these two seperate individuals were stating some type of chant about how they were covered "in the blood"; obviously during those times i was considered evil and needed to be osterisized. needless to say this was very unprofessional behavior.
that" blood covering" is such an elusive golden ticket.
when i was 13 i think i was kicked out of the christian faith (i've never been sure). a church elder made me confess publicly that i really did not believe in God because i was asking if the church had a rebuttal to what we were being taught in school about evolution...i don't think i have ever actually gotten over that night. i should have stood my ground.

thanks. have a great day!
 
Old 01-07-2011, 11:26 AM
 
6,039 posts, read 9,233,349 times
Reputation: 3933
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
Yes people!! Something tells me this is the year!! Jesus said we would not know the day nor the hour but he never said we couldn't know the season!!
Show your faith by giving away all your earthly possessions to the poor.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 11:49 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,693,976 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

If caught up meant anything else, to meet the Lord in the air couldn't have been more direct. The rest is pretty much self explainatory. The church will not be left behind to suffer like the unbelievers. That's one of the gifts and blessing of believing in Christ. There's a rumor that you even get a crown for watching for his return.

I wonder what the unbelievers after Y2K are up to now?


Oh yeah, still talking about Jesus coming soon.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 03:13 PM
 
624 posts, read 1,049,079 times
Reputation: 615
I sure am glad my salvation is not based upon my opinion. I sure am glad that I do not need to question my God. I am grateful for the love and grace Jesus has given me. I sure am glad I do not worship man , but can worship my Father who created me for fellowship with Him here on earth as well as in Heaven. May God Bless you.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 04:05 PM
 
6,235 posts, read 9,546,852 times
Reputation: 7533
Quote:
Originally Posted by sschulz View Post
It does not say it will be before the tribulation. Of course Christ will come and call his elect but it does not say they will avoid the trial. I believe they will suffer more than most, again to temper them and stregthen their faith and resolve. Remember Christ said "you will be hated of men for my sake" (paraphrase) All who are true followers of Christ will suffer persecution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Where is the air, my friend? Haven't you read about the spirit of the air in scripture? Do they mean cloud? You probabaly have misinterpreted that verse. The air means the world.

'who are those arrayed in white? ... they are those who came out of a great tribulation....' Go figure

You two just completely disregarded the scripture posted in front of you and that's in the Bible. Just what else do you think caught up together with them in the clouds mean?! If God was talking about the world, he would have said "the world" or "the earth" like he did when he was describing the shape of the world in this verse.

Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.

But in this verse

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I highlighted it red this time for you. God clearly says THE CLOUDS. Now what do you think that means?! The ocean?! I'm not trying to start a war here but seriously, get a clue! Lol. We WILL be raptured. Why would you want to be left behind is what I want to ask. Why? God did not appoint you to be left behind. You believed his son died on the cross for your sins and that he is in fact, his son, you are saved and WILL NOT go through the tribulation period left for all the unbelievers!! It's not like this is the first time people have been raptured to heaven from Earth by God. This is just the first time in such a magnitude it will happen!! That's what makes this time in history so special. Because the world has never seen what is about to take place. They have NO idea what is in store for their ungodly sins and lives. They think everything is going on the same as it has been since the world began but if that were only true! We are as in the days of Noah. Which brings me to THIS verse God clearly pointed out to us which is sure-fire proof we are going to be out of here via. the rapture!!

Luke:26
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Did you hear that?? When Noah entered the Ark!! All the unbelievers and unrighteous PERISHED but Noah and his family were SAVED!!! And guess what God said!! He said Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man!!!! Hello!! Connect the dots people! Just like in the days of Noah, if you believe in him, you will be saved!!

Just like it was in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah!

Luke 17:28
"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

Did you hear that?!! The Lord God destroyed them all!! But saved Lot!!!
He was saved from the tribulations and judgements appointed to the city of Sodom!!

And the last verse is POWERFUL TRUTH that even you cannot argue!! For God almighty says

Luke 17:30
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED!! That means when Jesus returns it will be just like those times!! Which means that we will be saved!!! Only this time, the world will actually be left alive and left behind to not only pay for their unbeliefs and sin but experience God's wrath on them and fight Satan!! Death will be ABSENT from the Earth!!!

Revelation 9:6
During those days men will seek death, but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

Now why would the church seek death from a tribulation when God clearly said we would have incorriputible and immortal bodies at the last trumpet where the rapture is mentioned for a SECOND TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1 Corinthians 15:51
Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."

Now excuse me but if the church is here during the tribution, what trumpets are we going to hear when our bodies turn immortal and incorruptible?!! Aren't we going to be beheaded by Satan's army to be with Christ?!! Then there is no way we could swallow up death in victory if we had to physcially die!!

ALSO, how in the world is the church going to see the tribulation when God clearly says this

Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

But during the tribulation, God BLATANTLY points out to the day when Jesus will return!!!!!

Acts 2:20
The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and glorious day of the Lord.

HOW WOULD WE KNOW THAT WHEN GOD SAYS WE WILL NOT KNOW THE DAY NOR THE HOUR OF HIS RETURN?!!!!!!

Because the catching away of the church event will be ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than the second coming of the Christ to the Earth!! God says Jesus will come to and rapture his church - the bride!! And then he will come again but this time on Earth in what we call The Second Coming of Christ because it will be his second time alive setting foot on Earth!! And he will have an army with him to battle Satan!!

Last edited by allenk893; 01-07-2011 at 04:34 PM..
 
Old 01-07-2011, 05:32 PM
 
910 posts, read 1,046,787 times
Reputation: 117
Allen,

Don't burst an artery over this. Consider for a minute that you may have misinterpreted all the scriptures you have just quoted, then you can take it easy. You will not be the first. The Jews were waiting for Elijah to come down from heaven and when the Savior came, they did not believe him. Let me focus on your points.

Quote:
caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air
The trick there is to understand what is meant by caught up and what is meant by clouds. 'Caught up' means being in one spiritual accord with Christ (Read Rev 12:5-6). The clouds denotes the mysterious power of God. Again where is the air? The air is all around you. The air is not the clouds in the sky... REPEAT not the clouds. Can you be permanently suspended in the cloud with Christ? That does not fit, if it doesn't fit then you must discard the interpretation.


Quote:
Luke:26
Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Did you hear that?? When Noah entered the Ark!! All the unbelievers and unrighteous PERISHED but Noah and his family were SAVED!!! And guess what God said!! He said Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man!!!! Hello!! Connect the dots people! Just like in the days of Noah, if you believe in him, you will be saved!!

Just like it was in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah!
In the days of Noah, there was no rapture. The righteous few were protected. That is why some will be taken and some are left. The ones taken in the days of Noah were the ones that were taken by the flood. The ones left were the ones unaffected by the flood.

Now step back a bit. If you sent your child to build a house and some fellas stopped that house project, when come by yourself to resume the building, will you

a) Destroy the fellas and continue building?
b) Leave the building for another site?

I want you to cast your mind to Christ's parable on the wicked husbandmen. That basically explains everything that will happen. Read it up and understand it. God is not the author of confusion.

Quote:
Luke 17:30
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

EVEN THUS SHALL IT BE WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED!! That means when Jesus returns it will be just like those times!! Which means that we will be saved!!! Only this time, the world will actually be left alive and left behind to not only pay for their unbeliefs and sin but experience God's wrath on them and fight Satan!! Death will be ABSENT from the Earth!!!
Again you have misread the verses in Luke 17. He said it will be so when he is REVEALED, not when he comes. When he is revealed is not synonymous to when he comes. Why? Because the same Luke 17 tells us that first he must first suffer many things and be rejected by this generation in his 2nd advent( Luke 17:25). That tallies with Rev 6: 1-end.

I'll stop and let you chew on these.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 10:15 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,766,924 times
Reputation: 58199
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Allen,

The trick there is to understand what is meant by caught up and what is meant by clouds. 'Caught up' means being in one spiritual accord with Christ (Read Rev 12:5-6). The clouds denotes the mysterious power of God. Again where is the air? The air is all around you. The air is not the clouds in the sky... REPEAT not the clouds. Can you be permanently suspended in the cloud with Christ? That does not fit, if it doesn't fit then you must discard the interpretation.
In Allen's defense, your interpretation is in error. You said it "the trick" is you trying to turn a straightforward scripture into something it is not. We all know what "caught up" means, we all know what the "clouds" are, and we all know what "air" is. Don't be so dang condescending and try and make others believe something that you've concocted in your own mind. Nowhere in that scripture does it say anything about being "permanently suspended". That is something that you read into it that isn't even there. I get sick and tired of people twisting scriptures to suit their own liking, if you don't like what it says then let's just "spiritualize" it and make it say something else. Bullcrap.


Quote:
In the days of Noah, there was no rapture. The righteous few were protected. That is why some will be taken and some are left. The ones taken in the days of Noah were the ones that were taken by the flood. The ones left were the ones unaffected by the flood.
Yes there was. Noah and his family were "spared" from the flood by way of an ark that God told him to build!! Protected IS being raptured. They were "caught up" in the ark, the same way the saints will be "caught up" in the air.

Quote:
Now step back a bit. If you sent your child to build a house and some fellas stopped that house project, when come by yourself to resume the building, will you

a) Destroy the fellas and continue building?
b) Leave the building for another site?

I want you to cast your mind to Christ's parable on the wicked husbandmen. That basically explains everything that will happen. Read it up and understand it. God is not the author of confusion.
Huh?? This makes absolutely no sense. God is not the author of confusion but men are, and you're doing a mighty fine job of it.


Quote:
Again you have misread the verses in Luke 17. He said it will be so when he is REVEALED, not when he comes. When he is revealed is not synonymous to when he comes. Why? Because the same Luke 17 tells us that first he must first suffer many things and be rejected by this generation in his 2nd advent( Luke 17:25). That tallies with Rev 6: 1-end.

I'll stop and let you chew on these.
Chew on this......you're so far off base that it's laughable really. There will be a rapture, there will be a 7 year tribulation and there will be an Anti-Christ who will lead many astray but you know what? That's okay because Jesus Christ has a plan for ALL of mankind to be reconciled to God, even though there will be much suffering to come in the future for those left behind. You may ask how can I believe in all this end times stuff and the rapture and believe in Universal Reconciliation at the same time......well......it's because that's what the Bible has predicted will happen and for some strange reason I still believe there to be truth in the Bible. I don't think it's all spiritual or metaphorical or figurative.....I think it's literal what is predicted. And I think anyone with any guts to believe the bad things can have guts to believe the really good things like UR.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 10:18 PM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,228,413 times
Reputation: 250
personally I think we're all going to get drawn into a black hole in the rapture, stephen hawking will be left behind to explain it all,and ppl will buy it.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 10:21 PM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,228,413 times
Reputation: 250
[quote=Ilene Wright;17310360]
Quote:

Chew on this......you're so far off base that it's laughable really. There will be a rapture, there will be a 7 year tribulation and there will be an Anti-Christ who will lead many astray but you know what? That's okay because Jesus Christ has a plan for ALL of mankind to be reconciled to God, even though there will be much suffering to come in the future for those left behind. You may ask how can I believe in all this end times stuff and the rapture and believe in Universal Reconciliation at the same time......well......it's because that's what the Bible has predicted will happen and for some strange reason I still believe there to be truth in the Bible. I don't think it's all spiritual or metaphorical or figurative.....I think it's literal what is predicted. And I think anyone with any guts to believe the bad things can have guts to believe the really good things like UR.
well-said.this is what I think,too.and yet er's will say we're going to hell for not beleiving in hell.that's not even the proper doctrine.if we were to buy that,then it would also be ok to say that someone would not be raptured bc he/she does not beleive in the rapture.
just something to ponder...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top