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Old 01-05-2011, 07:31 PM
 
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[quote=Jerwade;17264333]"A belief or notion is usually based on the fate of the swine, not in the man who was clothed again in his right mind."


So you do not believe the Word of God to be true, then. Sorry, there is no help for that.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
It is a scientific fact: We inherit crud from our parents. This is also a fact: We influence our children. Another fact: Governments can corrupt their citizens through bad governing and oppression. Sowing and reaping. Simple stuff. There are no generational curses. There is no evil eye. You can't curse others. God is in control. When we allow others to control us through fear, mind control, threats, etc. many things can happen, but is has nothing to do with the "dark side."



Deuteronomy 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. 2

Kings 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

Jeremiah 31:29-30 In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity.

Ezekiel18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
By the way, herefornow, I do hope that by now you have seen, as I posted, that the above verses have to do with dying, and the eternal death is the ultimate death typed in the Law, to avoid. Also, there is the matter of context and to determine context, one compares Scripture. There is the curse to the third and fourth generation to those who hate God, who make idols and bow to them, and those who bring the accursed thing into their homes, and to those who deal treacherously with their neighbors, besides thieves and perjurers being cursed as the scroll in Zechariah states, which enters the house to bring it down of those who steal and perjure.

Also, Jeremiah, lamenting in the place of Zion, for Zion, speaks of the curse applied to the descendants of the fathers who sinned against God, in Lamentations 5: 7
Lam 5:7 Our fathers have sinned, [and are] not; and we have borne their iniquities.

That is an example of a curse, and individuals could return to God and be blessed, but Zion could not be restored until she [nationally] repented, and turned to God.
Even like that, a man under a family curse can repent and be restored and blessed, though other members of the same fathers/ancestors, are not.


Quote:
Lamentations 5

1 Remember, LORD, what has happened to us;
look, and see our disgrace.
2 Our inheritance has been turned over to strangers,
our homes to foreigners.
3 We have become fatherless,
our mothers are widows.
4 We must buy the water we drink;
our wood can be had only at a price.
5 Those who pursue us are at our heels;
we are weary and find no rest.
6 We submitted to Egypt and Assyria
to get enough bread.
7 Our ancestors/fathers sinned and are no more,
and we bear their iniquities/punishment.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
"A belief or notion is usually based on the fate of the swine, not in the man who was clothed again in his right mind."

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
So you do not believe the Word of God to be true, then. Sorry, there is no help for that.
I have never understood why many embrace their view, feeling the need to push their own agenda of correctness; and at the same time demonizing the views of others as incorrect?

Unbelievable!


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Old 01-06-2011, 12:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post



I have never understood why many embrace their view, feeling the need to push their own agenda of correctness; and at the same time demonizing the views of others as incorrect?
The purpose of this thread is to help Christians who actually are "demonized", and the link is given to a called Bible teacher's teaching,, who teaches the Word of God by the authority of the Holy Spirit, in a manner that enlightens Believers who are under bondages of curses, to give them the biblical empowerment in the name and by the blood of Jesus Christ, to be set free.
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Old 01-06-2011, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post


I have never understood why many embrace their view, feeling the need to push their own agenda of correctness; and at the same time demonizing the views of others as incorrect?

Unbelievable!

It's called 'religion'. I don't think religion can be understood.
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Old 01-06-2011, 01:57 AM
 
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Biblically speaking, to be brought under the power of anything is to be mastered by that thing, which means that thing has dominion over the one it masters. The thing itself may not in and of itself be evil, being created for good and for our use, but when that thing gets dominion over/masters one, in twisted ways not good, then that means that there is a spiritual force that is not pure, operating in dominion over that one, causing, for instance, their table to become a stumbling-block [which is a named curse in the Bible], or their body to be used for acts of fornication, which the one brought under control of that power, hates.

Acts of fornication that a Believer in Christ may be in bondage to and need and want deliverance from includes a spirit of pornography that is in control of that one, or acts of self gratification -which is called fornication in the Word [pornography is from the same root word as fornication]. Another form of dominion an evil spirit has over some Believers is in the dreams that spirit causes the one it is dominating/mastering/controling, to have, where the one dreaming does things in the dreams that they would never do when awake. The dreams come again and again, and there is sorrow on the part of the one being tormented, and they pray for release, but they have not been instructed in how they can actually be released from the power of the evil, once, for all, by the name and blood of Jesus Christ.

If this is something that anyone reading this has and is experiencing and hates, then please listen to the teaching of the Bible teacher that is in the OP, and know that there is freedom in Christ for you that will be so complete and final that you will never be tormented by being compelled to do things that you hate, again, after you learn how to be free from the curse of that thing through the power of the cross of Christ and by His name and blood, nor will those tormenting dreams have power to come to torment you again.




Now in the Word, Paul states that he will not be brought under the power/control/dominion of those things that are lawful, like food and drink, and then he goes on to mention fornication as another power that believers are not to be mastered by.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:14 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
Biblically speaking, to be brought under the power of anything is to be mastered by that thing, which means that thing has dominion over the one it masters. The thing itself may not in and of itself be evil, being created for good and for our use, but when that thing gets dominion over/masters one, in twisted ways not good, then that means that there is a spiritual force that is not pure, operating in dominion over that one, causing, for instance, their table to become a stumbling-block [which is a named curse in the Bible], or their body to be used for acts of fornication, which the one brought under control of that power, hates.

Acts of fornication that a Believer in Christ may be in bondage to and need and want deliverance from includes a spirit of pornography that is in control of that one, or acts of self gratification -which is called fornication in the Word [pornography is from the same root word as fornication]. Another form of dominion an evil spirit has over some Believers is in the dreams that spirit causes the one it is dominating/mastering/controling, to have, where the one dreaming does things in the dreams that they would never do when awake. The dreams come again and again, and there is sorrow on the part of the one being tormented, and they pray for release, but they have not been instructed in how they can actually be released from the power of the evil, once, for all, by the name and blood of Jesus Christ.

If this is something that anyone reading this has and is experiencing and hates, then please listen to the teaching of the Bible teacher that is in the OP, and know that there is freedom in Christ for you that will be so complete and final that you will never be tormented by being compelled to do things that you hate, again, after you learn how to be free from the curse of that thing through the power of the cross of Christ and by His name and blood, nor will those tormenting dreams have power to come to torment you again.




Now in the Word, Paul states that he will not be brought under the power/control/dominion of those things that are lawful, like food and drink, and then he goes on to mention fornication as another power that believers are not to be mastered by.
If you are not receiving all the blessings recorded in Deuteronomy 28, there has to be somewhere in your life where you are in disobedience,being mastered by whatever that disobedience maybe and consequently under a curse,according to your own belief(not by the scriptures).

What you are failing to see is, all the blessings hinge on this

If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God: Verses 1 and 2

In James it says this

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.James 2:10

So when ever you stumble you are in danger of bringing OT curses upon yourself, believing the way you do.No if's or but's about it.

I like Derek Prince, but he is way off teaching this.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:58 AM
 
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Back in the 70's A.D. I was in the Shepherding, Discipleship movement in which Derek Prince was one of the teachers. What I think is one of his major failings is not "correctly cutting" or as some versions have it "rightly dividing" the word of truth. He mixes up the whole pot into one big stew and says, Here, let me shove this down your mouth cause it's real good!

pcamps stated it perfectly!

Paul had to deal with this problem as well with the churches of Galatia. They were mixing law with grace. We are not under law but under grace. The curses of the law are for those who covenanted with God to do all the law. The blessings of the law are for those likewise.

Our blessings have to do rather with being IN CHRIST where there is no condemnation.

Last edited by Eusebius; 01-06-2011 at 06:17 AM..
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Back in the 70's A.D. I was in the Shepherding, Discipleship movement in which Derek Prince was one of the teachers.
Derek Prince publicly and thoroughly repented of his being involved in the Shepherding movement, as did many of the charismatic leaders he was grouped with.
He also, over the decades of being a Christian:
1 once was getting involved, personally, with yoga through someone seducing him into it [in his early years of being a Believer]. God warned him by parabolic dreams that continued until he asked what the reason for the dreams were, and God instructed him that it was his seduction into yoga, which was not total seduction yet, just temptation, and at the brink. He repented, and became a more effective Bible teacher through his own experience.

2 he also was seduced into the health food movement [years after I was saved], when it was all the rage in some of the Churches, and he was instructed by God and repented on that [he once turned orange from the orange juice fad, he said, from the amounts he consumed -one of the men in our own Church in later years turned green from juicing veges and drinking them, which was another fad], and became a very effective biblical teacher on that area, on why we can trust God and thank God for what we have, and with thanksgiving, believe God has provided and does provide nutrition for our bodies with whatever food available to us, in our station in life.

I am sure there were more, but these I remember, because my own first "spiritual mother" in the faith, who made herself acquainted with me when I first entered a local Church after the LORD saved me by a miracle in my own home, and who, with her husband, nurtured me and my husband [drawing him to the LORD], and our children, in their own home by giving us fellowship, were close friends with Derek Prince and handled his tape ministry in the US until a son-in-law took that over, years later. Because of that, I had many tapes given to me to listen to of Derek's teaching, and since he was a Bible school teacher on more than one continent, I felt like I had a Bible school education through that, with my own studies and love of the Word, combined.

When Derek was signed into the Shepherding movement, I was not fooled, just as I was never fooled by health food fads that raged through the Churches [though through the years as a Christian I have had my own temptations and the LORD has brought me through them -and made me stronger], and I prayed to the LORD about it with sorrow....later, when he renounced that involvement, I was so happy to know that God is so good to lead his children out of temptations and make them stronger for it, so as "strengthen their brethern", when "they are converted" out of the temptation they fell into.

The fact is that Derek is a called by the Holy Spirit teacher of the Word, with the call to be faithful to God, for teachers are to be judged more severely than Believers who are not in such an office.

That said, even Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ", and no man is to say; "I am of this man", or; "I am of that man", but all are of Christ; and we are one body, in Christ, and we hold one another accountable.
On the instructions in the teaching of Derek Prince in the issues of this OP, there is sound biblical teaching, and many people have been instructed and helped by it, from the LORD, to live in freedom from bondages that have oppressed them after they have come to know the LORD as Savior, but not as Deliverer from some forms of oppressions, yet. That is who I posted this teaching for.


So Paul circumcised Timothy, and Peter dissembled and ate with the Jews, separate from the Gentiles, but both were God's called men...and today, Christians are likewise called to preach or teach in the Church, and go through temptations, which, because they belong to God and are truly His, He instructs them and brings them out of all temptations, through their lives lived, and makes them stronger, and able to strengthen their brethren".
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
If you are not receiving all the blessings recorded in Deuteronomy 28, there has to be somewhere in your life where you are in disobedience,being mastered by whatever that disobedience maybe and consequently under a curse,according to your own belief(not by the scriptures).

What you are failing to see is, all the blessings hinge on this

If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the LORD your God: Verses 1 and 2

In James it says this

For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.James 2:10

So when ever you stumble you are in danger of bringing OT curses upon yourself, believing the way you do.No if's or but's about it.

I like Derek Prince, but he is way off teaching this.
1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Obviously, you have not listened, for he in no way puts any Believers under the Law, but uses the instructions from the Law, which is a schoolmaster/Tutor, to us, and is there for our benefit, and as the examples of what happened to those who did not obey God, for us.

As it is said in the New Testament, everything that happened to Israel happened to them for our instruction, in these last days.
1Cr 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Neither be ye idolaters, as [were] some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.


So what are the lessons we can learn from God's instructions to Israel, and their subsequent cursings and the promised blessings? -to obey the LORD and walk humbly with Him.
What is obedience to the LORD but to confess Jesus Christ as our LORD and Savior, and not have any other gods besides the One True God, not to make images and bow down to them, and to honor our father and mother; to not lie, cheat, or steal; nor to commit adultery; nor to bring in any accursed thing into our homes; and to not imitate the ways of the heathen, lest we curse ourselves, or our descendents.

The OP links are there for those to learn the biblical doctrines on the matter, who want to be free of oppressions of the devil over their lives and be set free to live in the freedom Christ came to give us by His work on the cross.

A called Bible teacher teaches from the Bible, the whole Bible, and uses the lessons there to instruct and make people free by "the hearing of the Word".

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
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