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Old 01-06-2011, 08:45 PM
 
37,644 posts, read 25,331,652 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post
I don't think that is the case, but just saying that if we doubt one part of the Bible, what's to say the rest is not bunk?
This stupid question is posed all the time. The answer is knowledge and intellect . . . that is what enables the proper interpretation of the ancient ignorance of our ancestors.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:18 PM
 
10,208 posts, read 10,589,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
"Dude, leave me alone, I'm trying to eat here."

Also,

"Judas, bro, why'd you narc me out? I always wind up in trouble when I hang with you."
Dude, did you wander into the wrong chatroom?
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,315 posts, read 14,189,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I think people missed the point of the OP ... The point of the op is that Christ could not have said both things ... Both Luke and Mathew record him as having said different things.
They say the same thing.
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Old 01-07-2011, 12:52 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,212,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
They say the same thing.
No they don't.

In the times of Christ, the corpses of criminals and diseased, etc. ... where burned in Gehenna instead of buried.

So when we read luke ...

Luke 12:4
And I say to you, my friends, be not afraid of those killing the body, and after these things are not having anything over to do; but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him.

No mention of the soul in the verse in Luke, only of the body. Christ warns the people of Israel not to fear men who could kill the body and do nothing else, i.e throw their dead bodies into the fires of Gehenna. But fear him that had the power to cast the your body into Gehenna after he has killed you.

The thing is none of the gospels are first hand accounts, and Mathew is definitely a copy made from the gospel of mark.

Luke is the most historically accurate Gospel. He was a historian after all ...
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Old 01-07-2011, 01:07 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,315 posts, read 14,189,981 times
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NASB

Luke 12:4-5 - "I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Matt. 10:28 - "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
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Old 01-07-2011, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Buxton, England
7,032 posts, read 8,415,864 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You can have your soul or enjoyment of soulish sensations in the kingdom to come be destroyed in Gehenna.

In the other verse, others are not able to kill your enjoyment of kingdom pleasures after I (Jesus) give you immortality.

If you don't kill your soul now (or kill or put to death your earthly sensual pleasures now) you will not get those pleasures in the future kingdom. But if you do kill or put to get your sensual, soulish pleasures now and follow me and die to yourselves you will get your soul or soulish pleasures in the future kingdom.

Sounds like blackmail. About time we ditched all this stupid religious rubbish and get back to reality. It all amounts to this: If you enjoy life, want to have a good time, make of the most of it, get involved in anything fun, then YOU'RE GOING TO HELL.
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Old 01-07-2011, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,364,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Dude, did you wander into the wrong chatroom?

No, I was imagining things he might have actually said.

Maybe not in those words, because I doubt Aramaic has a word for "dude" or "narc"...but you can't see Jesus saying things like that, for real, instead of the things we're told that he said?
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Old 01-07-2011, 07:00 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,092,025 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weatherfan2 View Post
Sounds like blackmail. About time we ditched all this stupid religious rubbish and get back to reality. It all amounts to this: If you enjoy life, want to have a good time, make of the most of it, get involved in anything fun, then YOU'RE GOING TO HELL.
Au contraire! Life WITH Christ is exciting, challenging, fulfilling and loads of fun.

Life without Him is just an endless series of amusements with little purpose.
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Old 01-07-2011, 09:47 AM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,212,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
NASB

Luke 12:4-5 - "I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Matt. 10:28 - "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
The above translation shows the two verses to be just as different as the Young's translation which i used in my Original Post, the only difference is the use of the word hell in place of Gehenna, and so your post does in no way change the facts.

The word soul is not even mentioned in that verse in Luke 12:4-5. Did Christ actually mention the soul in the sermon or not?

If Luke is true, then Jesus in truth said nothing about the soul in that sermon, but if Matthew is true, then Jesus did in fact mention the soul and Luke is thus erroneous. They cannot both be an accurate testimony of what Jesus actually said, plain and simple.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-07-2011 at 10:02 AM..
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:07 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,315 posts, read 14,189,981 times
Reputation: 10138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
NASB

Luke 12:4-5 - "I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Matt. 10:28 - "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The above translation shows the two verses to be just as different as the Young's translation which i used in my Original Post, the only difference is the use of the word hell in place of Gehenna, and so your post does in no way change the facts.

The word soul is not even mentioned in that verse in Luke 12:4-5. Did Christ actually mention the soul in the sermon or not?

If Luke is true, then Jesus in truth said nothing about the soul in that sermon, but if Matthew is true, then Jesus did in fact mention the soul and Luke is thus erroneous. They cannot both be an accurate testimony of what Jesus actually said, plain and simple.
"kill the body" - in both verses, meaning killing the physical body.

"unable to kill the soul" / "after that have no more that they can do" - this is the same thing, those who kill the body are unable to kill the soul - i.e., there is no more that they can do to you once the body is dead.

Souls exist eternally either in heaven or is cast into hell (by the One whom we should fear according to those two verses).
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