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Old 01-04-2011, 05:36 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,208,545 times
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So what did Jesus really say?



Did he really say ... ?


Mat 10:28
And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.


Or did he actually say ... ?


Luke 12:4
And I say to you, my friends, be not afraid of those killing the body, and after these things are not having anything over to do; but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him.


Many people think that the words above in both verses amount to the same thing, but as far as understanding theology and proper doctrine, the two verses lend to altogether different ideas.



For instance, is the human soul immortal? Matthew seems to indicate that it is(or at least could be construed to say as much), while the verse in Luke does not.

What do you think?


Edit:
I chose to use the Youngs literal translation because i believe it is the most accurate as far as the original Greek is concerned.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-04-2011 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 40,331,360 times
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"Dude, leave me alone, I'm trying to eat here."

Also,

"Judas, bro, why'd you narc me out? I always wind up in trouble when I hang with you."
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,293 posts, read 14,153,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
For instance, is the human soul immortal? Matthew seems to indicate that it is(or at least could be construed to say as much), while the verse in Luke does not.

What do you think?
Yes it is.
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,067,270 times
Reputation: 7707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
So what did Jesus really say?



Did he really say ... ?


Mat 10:28
And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.


Or did he actually say ... ?


Luke 12:4
And I say to you, my friends, be not afraid of those killing the body, and after these things are not having anything over to do; but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him.


Many people think that the words above in both verses amount to the same thing, but as far as understanding theology and proper doctrine, the two verses lend to altogether different ideas.



For instance, is the human soul immortal? Matthew seems to indicate that it is(or at least could be construed to say as much), while the verse in Luke does not.

What do you think?


Edit:
I chose to use the Youngs literal translation because i believe it is the most accurate as far as the original Greek is concerned.

Maybe it's not a case of every soul not being immortal, but only those who die without Christ. Maybe God intends to destroy those souls, I don't know.

In any case, it really doesn't concern me because I'm not going to judgment day without my Savior. What happens to those who reject Christ in this life is their problem.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:32 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,453,770 times
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You can have your soul or enjoyment of soulish sensations in the kingdom to come be destroyed in Gehenna.

In the other verse, others are not able to kill your enjoyment of kingdom pleasures after I (Jesus) give you immortality.

If you don't kill your soul now (or kill or put to death your earthly sensual pleasures now) you will not get those pleasures in the future kingdom. But if you do kill or put to get your sensual, soulish pleasures now and follow me and die to yourselves you will get your soul or soulish pleasures in the future kingdom.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,386,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
So what did Jesus really say?



Did he really say ... ?


Mat 10:28
And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.


Or did he actually say ... ?


Luke 12:4
And I say to you, my friends, be not afraid of those killing the body, and after these things are not having anything over to do; but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him.


Many people think that the words above in both verses amount to the same thing, but as far as understanding theology and proper doctrine, the two verses lend to altogether different ideas.



For instance, is the human soul immortal? Matthew seems to indicate that it is(or at least could be construed to say as much), while the verse in Luke does not.

What do you think?


Edit:
I chose to use the Youngs literal translation because i believe it is the most accurate as far as the original Greek is concerned.
Gehenna is the word used in these verses, not Hades. Gehenna was the dump.

All I know is that the ultra-religious Jews would have been horrified if they had ended up in Gehenna (translated "hell"), the town dump. If Jesus was saying, "Hey, you religious guys are going to be killed and your bodies are going to be dumped out with the garbage with no proper burial," that wasn't a small deal. Why preachers say this has anything to do with people sitting in the pews today, I can't imagine.
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Old 01-06-2011, 06:23 PM
 
7,878 posts, read 6,686,655 times
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The soul will die when it is lost in hell, but the human spirit will never die .......in Isaiah 66: 24...``the men that have transgressed against me for theirs worms shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched``..... see their worms is another metafore for spirit of this dead people
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:24 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,208,545 times
Reputation: 892
I think people missed the point of the OP ... The point of the op is that Christ could not have said both things ... Both Luke and Mathew record him as having said different things.
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,386,389 times
Reputation: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I think people missed the point of the OP ... The point of the op is that Christ could not have said both things ... Both Luke and Mathew record him as having said different things.

Well, Luke doesn't contradict the OT.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Sierra Nevada Land, CA
7,936 posts, read 8,514,397 times
Reputation: 11654
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
So what did Jesus really say?



Did he really say ... ?


Mat 10:28
And be not afraid of those killing the body, and are not able to kill the soul, but fear rather Him who is able both soul and body to destroy in gehenna.


Or did he actually say ... ?


Luke 12:4
And I say to you, my friends, be not afraid of those killing the body, and after these things are not having anything over to do; but I will show to you, whom ye may fear; Fear him who, after the killing, is having authority to cast to the gehenna; yes, I say to you, Fear ye Him.


Many people think that the words above in both verses amount to the same thing, but as far as understanding theology and proper doctrine, the two verses lend to altogether different ideas.



For instance, is the human soul immortal? Matthew seems to indicate that it is(or at least could be construed to say as much), while the verse in Luke does not.

What do you think?


Edit:
I chose to use the Youngs literal translation because i believe it is the most accurate as far as the original Greek is concerned.
Yet another thread that says the Bible can't be trusted. I think you like Young's translation cuz it makes it easier to support your theological POV. Much like the JWs who use their unique translation of the Bible to support their theology.
************************
Why do UR folk want to push the idea that one cannot trust what 98% of translations say?

Maybe this whole thing about being redeemed by Jesus is just some mistranslation.

I don't think that is the case, but just saying that if we doubt one part of the Bible, what's to say the rest is not bunk?
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