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Old 01-10-2011, 11:51 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Great topic, Eusebius. Thanks!
Hi, Shana! I know you don't know me, but I just wanted to let you know that your repetitive posting on the "forevers"/"untils" caught my attention and started my intense study of UR and my posting on City-Data. Thank you so much.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:06 AM
 
30 posts, read 29,267 times
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Eusebius,

I'm having some trouble following your OP. Can you briefly explain the relationship you are seeing between kronos and aionios, as Plato is using these terms in Timaeus?
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Plato wasn't Jewish, nor was he a Christian....Greeks minds operate much different from that of a Jew.
That is your first mistake.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:00 PM
 
373 posts, read 310,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Plato wasn't Jewish, nor was he a Christian....Greeks minds operate much different from that of a Jew.
That is your first mistake.
The Hebrew originals are lost....

Take a look at the "for ever" in Gen 3:22
Hebrew: olam
Greek LXX: aionios

So if we want to look at it with a Hebrew mind perhaps we should study olam.
I've read some articles about it. I emailed a Rabbi.
For a Jew it means something like:
"over the horizon of a unknown duration"
or
"over the horizon of a duration only know by God"

For ever in Hebrew can be a very short time
Ask Jonah 2:6 who was for ever/olam in the fish for 3 days....

Or the slave that belongs to his master for ever/olam
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,285,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
The Hebrew originals are lost....

Take a look at the "for ever" in Gen 3:22
Hebrew: olam
Greek LXX: aionios

So if we want to look at it with a Hebrew mind perhaps we should study olam.
I've read some articles about it. I emailed a Rabbi.
For a Jew it means something like:
"over the horizon of a unknown duration"
or
"over the horizon of a duration only know by God"

For ever in Hebrew can be a very short time
Ask Jonah 2:6 who was for ever/olam in the fish for 3 days....

Or the slave that belongs to his master for ever/olam
What does an unknown duration mean?
It means there is no end in sight. Ur purports that there is an end in sight, a consummation not verifiable in Rev 21-22, but somewhere else, yet throughout the OT and NT, the final consummated age, that is never ending, is specifically called the Age to come, characterized by the New Heavens and Earth...where there is a separation between Inside, and Outside the city gates......there is still sin, death, murder, lying, etc, but in the city gates, there is no more sin, sorrow, or death. UR cannot, and will not, deal with this properly, and has extrapolated various texts and imported them into areas that are for the most part, illogical and inconsistent with eschatology and soteriology.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:16 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,371,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What does an unknown duration mean?
It means there is no end in sight. Ur purports that there is an end in sight, a consummation not verifiable in Rev 21-22, but somewhere else, yet throughout the OT and NT, the final consummated age, that is never ending, is specifically called the Age to come, characterized by the New Heavens and Earth...where there is a separation between Inside, and Outside the city gates......there is still sin, death, murder, lying, etc, but in the city gates, there is no more sin, sorrow, or death.
Amen!

There is not another part to this ending, like they would have us believe. ALL of it can be found in the Word.
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Old 01-24-2011, 01:49 PM
 
373 posts, read 310,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
What does an unknown duration mean?
It means there is no end in sight.
Yes.
Quote:
Ur purports that there is an end in sigh
Wrong!
UR purports there is an end. But only God know when exactly that end is. That's a big difference.
For Jonah there was no end in sight. But the end came within 3 days.

For the slave there was no end in sight but the end came at his death.

ETs fail to grasp the plan of the ages/olams.

His plan of the ages - Click here.
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Old 01-24-2011, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,285,528 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Yes.

Wrong!
UR purports there is an end. But only God know when exactly that end is. That's a big difference.
For Jonah there was no end in sight. But the end came within 3 days.

For the slave there was no end in sight but the end came at his death.

ETs fail to grasp the plan of the ages/olams.

His plan of the ages - Click here.
You are wrong. The scriptures reveal a never ending time, such as the Age to Come and the NH and E....which is post second coming and post resurrection of the dead/GWTJ...it's all in there....Ezekiel, Daniel, Isaiah, Malachi, Micah, Zechariah, Peter's and Paul's epistles, the Hebrews, and Revelation, etc, etc, etc.

Secondly, I am not ET. ET is purely per covenant, and there is no place in Hades for those outside of covenant, and without the knowledge of God. It's just that simple. If you are outside of covenant, you future is that that is in the dust, just as the beasts. No living soul, no resurrection.
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:29 PM
 
373 posts, read 310,489 times
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Scriptures use words that elsewhere have a meaning with an ending. So why assume the meaning suddenly changes when it's about LoF?

Jesus speaks about corrective punishment. Meaning it ends.
Nobody is outside the convenant. Jesus died for all people.
KJVJohn 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

That's the whole world. 1Co_15:22-28 is after Revelation. Certain things happening in Revelation ended there.

Don't be fooled by the word perish. It doesn't say it's permanent. Greek word is apollumi.
The sheep, the coin, the prodical son all where apollumi.
The were all found. The son did indeed seek. The sheep perhaps knew they were lost but are to dumb to seek. And the coin simply knew nothing.
The meaning of apolumi/perish/destryed on the wide road varies with the voice.
In John 3:16 it is:

Voice-Middle
The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action
upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit. E.g.,
"The boy groomed himself." Many verbs which occur only in
middle voice forms are translated in English as having an
active sense; these are called "deponent" verbs, and do not
comply with the normal requirements for the middle voice.

"NH and E" what's that?
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:53 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,197,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Great topic, Eusebius. Thanks!
Where have you been Shana ... !?!?!?! You have been missed, i hope you are doing well my dear.
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