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Old 07-15-2012, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by svenM View Post
no it is because of Plato that we have immortal souls and maybe "eternity", Plato did not teach UR, as far as I know he taught eternal damnation at least for a few; and maybe he was even the first who did so

Dear svenM, you are correct Plato did not teach God saving all mankind.

He never taught eternal damnation for even a few.
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Old 07-17-2012, 10:23 AM
Location: US
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Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Some theologians and lexicons say Plato used aionion as "eternal" and just reference Plato's kronos part in Timaeus. However, if they really took the time to really read and understand the part called "KRONOS" (Grk. for "time") in Timaeus they would arrive at a wholly different conclusion. Here is my little study on Timaeus:
(author's note: Most English translations of Timaeus render both "aidion" and "aion" and "aionion" as "eternal." This is untennable as will be seen):

Concerning Plato's Timaeus:
"WHEN the father creator saw the creature which he had made moving
and living, the created image of the AIDION gods, he rejoiced, and in his
joy determined to make the copy still more like the original; and as this
was AIDION, he sought to make the universe EONION, so far as might be.
Now the nature of the ideal being was EONIAN, but to bestow this
attribute in its fulness upon a creature was impossible. Wherefore he
resolved to have a moving image of the EON, and when he set in order the
heaven, he made this image the EON but moving according to number,
while EONIAN itself rests in unity; and this image we call time. For there
were no days and nights and months and years before the heaven was
created, but when he constructed the heaven he created them also. They
are all parts of time, and the past and future are created species of time,
which we unconsciously but wrongly transfer to the AIDION essence; for
we say that he "was," he "is," he "will be," but the truth is that "is" alone
is properly attributed to him, and that "was" and "will be" only to be
spoken of becoming in time, for they are motions, but that which is
immovably the same cannot become older or younger by time, nor ever did
or has become, or hereafter will be, older or younger, nor is subject at all
to any of those states which affect moving and sensible things and of
which generation is the cause. These are the forms of time, which
imitates the EON and revolves according to a law of number. Moreover,
when we say that what has become is become and what becomes is
becoming, and that what will become is about to become and that the
non-existent is non-existent-all these are inaccurate modes of

Tony's note: Please note above that Plato says there is “was,” “is” and
“will be” and that only “was” and “will be” are properly spoken of becoming
in time and since the eons and eonian is an image of time it is improper,
according to Plato to ascribe “was” and “will be” to God. Only “is” is
applicable to God since He never changes nor grows old. So “is” is not
applicable to eon or eonian since only “was” and “will be” are applicable to
eon and eonian. Therefore, according to Plato, eon and eonian are not
eternal since they are not applicable to God who is eternal.

Also, according to Plato's Timaeus, time was created when the heavens were created: the Sun, moon
and stars mark out the times and seasons. And eon and eonian are,
according to Plato a moving image of time. Therefore since the heavens
had a beginning it is impossible for eon or eonian to be eternal (without
beginning). And when the heavens are destroyed time will cease and thus
eon and eonian will cease as well.

Nathaniel Scarlett on Jude 1:6 "unseen chains" . . .
"Most Lexicon writers derive the word aidios from aei, ever or always: but
it may have the same etemology as hades, which they derive from a
negative, and idein, to see; and therefore it signifies invisible, unseen, or
unknown. In Romans 1:20 where it is applied to the power of the Deity, it
means unknown; because we see or know only a very small part of God's
power. The word is used in a limited sense by the Greeks: thus
Thucydides has this phrase--othen (whence clv) aidion (imperceptible)
misthophoran uparchein (to be belonging clv), from whence he expected a
perpetual salary." But this could only be a salary during his life: therefore
the word here in Thucydides means a period unknown; though it will
certainly end."

Tony Nungesser (that's me) A.K.A. Eusebius
So???...BTW...Are you related to Nungesser's Jewelry of N. 7th street in Allentown, PA?...
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Old 07-20-2012, 03:41 AM
373 posts, read 310,554 times
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Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
When Plato referred to the immortal gods he used aidios. The Greek Jews used aidios for "eternal.".
The aidios chained angels until judgement?
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