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Old 01-08-2011, 05:44 AM
 
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God`s plan was to have heaven on the earth , so the garden of Eden was a duplicate of Heaven , the tree of life were the creation of light that gave eternal life of the eternal goodness of God, then there was the tree of the knowledge of Good and evil, which the Lord God rejected as impure before him , see the good in this tree may be good but it was not pure enough to be his choice, and the evil was outright rejected....... Adam was eating from the tree of life and this portion keep him alive for 900 years , but after Adam disobeyed the Lord Command, the tree of Life was removed and Adam could not eat again from this tree, lest Adam corrupt the plan of God to hold the authority over the earth like he gives Jesus today....... and after Jesus cleans the evil out of the earth Then the plan of God will be were it was for the Garden of Eden .........
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:15 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
finn came pretty close to an answer to something that's vexing me but still I don't understand. Let's take it step by step

God puts them in the garden. He essentially gives them permission to eat of the Tree of Life because it wasn't forbidden. They look at the fruit. It looks good. Hypothetically, if they had taken a bite, they would have been instantly immortal, unless immortality is contingent on continuously eating its fruit to retain immortality (which is not likely since God immediately drove them out of Eden in order to prevent them from ever taking even one bite). They then sin, and the fatal danger was that if they HAD eaten from the Tree of Life pre-sin God probably would have had to destroy them so that they would not live forever in their sinful state.

Anyone see where I'm going with this? Putting Adam & Eve next to the Tree of Life was like putting a child next to a live hand grenade. You know he's going to pull the pin. Come to think of it, why was a Tree even necessary for immortality? isn't that something that only God can confer? Why does God instill a tree with the ability to infuse immortality? None of this is making sense to me from a practical POV.
They never had immortality. They were NEVER Perfect - not even before they ate of the forbidden fruit. They were still being MADE perfect even by taking the forbidden fruit. Remember they were made in the image of God but they were STILL being made. Remember these were God's Children. God knows Good and Evil. They had ALSO to come to that knowledge:

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

It was purposed that Adam and Eve would eat of the forbidden fruit. They were still CARNAL - if they had the Holy Spirit then they would not have been disobedient to God's will.

They were mortals.
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:32 AM
 
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I picture Adan and Eve walking by the Tree of Life one day and, realizing it was different from all the other trees, like a peach or an apple tree, Adam maybe said to Eve, "Hey God didn't say we can't eat from this tree so why don't we? It's looks interesting" What would have happened if both had picked a fruit and eaten it? What effect would consuming this fruit have had on their physical bodies? Would it have changed the composition of their flesh, or would it have just passed harmlessly out the other end?

Apparently God saw no danger in them eating from it in their pristine state. It was only after they sinned that the Tree apparently had the power to confer immortality and so they had to be booted out of Eden.

Again, I realize this is probably mundane stuff and there are probably more serious issues to discuss (like universal redemption vs eternal torment ).
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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I believe without a shadow of doubt that God intended that we ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that was in the garden.It was all part of his marvellous plan to make known his great love towards us. Just telling us that he loved us , would never have convinced us.

Dying for us while we are sinners leave us in no doubt of the greatness of his love.


Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.John 15:13

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Romans 5:8
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Old 01-08-2011, 11:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I believe without a shadow of doubt that God intended that we ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that was in the garden.It was all part of his marvellous plan to make known his great love towards us. Just telling us that he loved us , would never have convinced us.
Absolutely.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I believe without a shadow of doubt that God intended that we ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that was in the garden.
Good and evil leads to that which is perfect in knowledge, truth and love; nothing dualistic about it.

"The way, truth and Life is having the mind of Christ."


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Old 01-08-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I believe without a shadow of doubt that God intended that we ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that was in the garden.It was all part of his marvellous plan to make known his great love towards us. Just telling us that he loved us , would never have convinced us.

Dying for us while we are sinners leave us in no doubt of the greatness of his love.


Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.John 15:13

Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.Romans 5:8
Indeed, because without knowledge and understanding, and contrast, we could not experience love. Great post! We choose to have children, even though we KNOW they will suffer and die. We are like our Father in heaven in that regard.
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Old 01-08-2011, 02:46 PM
 
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This was a message I sent to Thrill, and he asked if I would post it here. But these are my thoughts concerning Genesis, and for the most part,,,the Bible.

You are having a hard time reconciling the fact that God placed Adam in the Garden, with both sets of trees, and why then did the things take place the way they did.

It will lead you to all sorts of doctrines, and theories.

My own personal walk through Genesis, is the following:

YOU are Adam. When you were created, BACK THEN, you were perfect, and complete.

Eve is your soul-mate,,,your other half on earth, and heaven, spiritually. I have had the luxury of marrying mine. It took a lot of women to find her, but when I did, I felt like we have always been together.

Remember, the Bible is the only book written to us, individually. We are in there at EVERY point in our lives.

The Garden, is the place we all were, prior to falling. We were pure, unblemished. We loved, laughed, and knew not sin, because we innocent. Alive! Watch children sometime. How they look at life. What they think about.

The weeds and thistles, are those things that choke the pure food out. The bad thoughts. The evil in this world.

Once we fall, we die spiritually. We know it when it happens, and most can tell you the moment it happened. For myself, I stole some candy from the 5&10 when I was around 9 years old. I was caught, and horrified. I repented and gave it back, but I was NEVER the same. My thoughts were not so pure anymore. I worried what people thought about me. I remember going to school, and not thinking the way I used to. Bottom line is, I had fallen from innocence.

There is a war that happens after this takes place. This fall. Your offspring(actions) take a turn for the worse, ending up with Cain(evil) killing off Abel(goodness). We are fully human now, and then take our place in this present world, dealing with other Cains who have also done the same thing.

You are no longer a man, both spiritually and physically. You are missing your completeness. Your Eve. Only when we come together spiritually with our Eve can we be complete, and whole again. Man, so to speak. Read Genesis 1:26-27. Male and Female are man. Woman wasn't named until they were seperated.

And the Garden? It is your mind. Your thoughts. Think about it. What is closed off, after you fall? The ability to commune with God? Right?

The thing is, we were ALL created 'In The Beginning'. It was GOOD! We ALL were. God is not creatiing anymore, so where do all the people and their spirits come from?
We are only formed in the womb, when our spirit is united with our body. So, our Gardens are pure. We walk with God. It is the place of bliss. We remain there, until we fall from grace, which is why I DO NOT believe in original sin.

Of course, this is after many, many years of studying, especially Genesis. And this is my own revelatiion. I do not even know if there is anyone who thinks the way I do, because honestly, I really don't care unless they are seeking answers. LOL.

You will see even the stories take on a whole new meaning. We all build our Towers of Babel. We all must pass the Abrahamic test, for it is US we have to slay, and die daily. You will see Melchizedek(Christ) desiring to come commune with us, drawing us near. You will see the 'world' in Sodom, and her king.

You will see power over others, unleashed. After all, it was the forbidden fruit. The 'desire to make one wise', is the desire for power, and it set that fruit apart. The rest of the trees were a delight to the eyes, and good for food.

Anyway brother, enough of the rambling. Hope this helped. If not, I am sorry.

Peace,

Tony
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:18 PM
 
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Default The Truth

Shalom...when G-d told Abraham to offer his son Isaac for a burnt offering,, it was an exercise in faith to say the very least. The point of this heavenly request is summed up in this verse after the angel of the Lord (Yeshua Messiac) stayed Abraham's hand from going through with it..."for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me." Genesis 22:12
...clearly, Abraham was not motivated by irreverent fear to obey the Lord...rather, out of simple unfeigned love, and reverential awe. Abraham,, the friend of G-d...Isaiah 41:8; James 2:23.
With this in mind, G-d had to know which in Adam's race (human race) had love or hate for G-d...that it be made clear in the sight of G-d and all of His creation who has love and who does not. The way in which G-d has been accomplishing this began in the garden of Eden where the command (instruction) was given (Genesis 2:16,17), where the first trial and conviction took place (Genesis 3)...and was finished at Golgotha where Yeshua proclaimed "It is finished:" (John) 19:30. The determination of every individual is being made until even now, toward completion. Offense or faith...The Blessings of The Eternal One bring you joy...
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Old 01-08-2011, 03:37 PM
 
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I think Genesis is very figuratily speaking,and it wasn't real fruit at all.I suspect it had to do with sex,else they would not have been ashamed of their nakedness.this is how I think the original,perfect human genome God created for us got destroyed,and now we have to deal with the result of that,which are things like birth defects,illnesses,and disease.

God didn't want us to live in this fallen state forever,so he prevented reentry into the Garden,and thus,eternal life in this condition.

Only other thing I would say is,for the non-believers out there...there had to have been an original plan to begin with,for us to come to the imperfect state we are now in.what I mean is,obviously things like having 2 eyes,1 nose,1 mouth,2 arms .etc.. (not to mention all the internal organs) is part of the perfect plan,and just as satan is not all-knowing,he is not capable of being all-destroying,either,and thus,despite the defects in our genome,most ppl are born pretty much normal,other than the tendency twds things that will eventually kill them (heart disease,cancer etc).
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