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Old 01-10-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,906,266 times
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I see I got some of your attention, there is nothing wrong with me Ilene it is just that torture and pain do not register with me as it does with others. I live with pain every day and the bad thing about it, I dont feel it. Torture brings the promise of feeling something new. Dont get me wrong I feel things but not like others, pain is just an obstical to get over. Dont you feel torture when convicted of sin. I have never feared hell or torture does that make me bad, Lord forbid, I am blessed. I had a stroke a year and a half ago, parralized my whole right side, gave me something to over come. What is wrong with me? I am blessed beyond messure and I see blessing in everything always have, thought I lost it for a little while but God showed me otherwise. I have learned alot during my short life and learn more everyday. Yes torture excites me because the blessing is greater than the pain. I see things in His word I am not able to share, talk about torture that feels so good. I cant believe in UR because God told me it is a lie. Dont feel bad for those who reject Him this world wont even be a memory. Oh what I wouldnt give for the words to share His truth, believe every word of the Bible because it is true and theories are just theories with only limited truths and alot of lies. Sorry for rambling, God does that to me sometimes. Words in this world have no effect in the next and torture is just another method of learning.

 
Old 01-10-2011, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,386,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I see I got some of your attention, there is nothing wrong with me Ilene it is just that torture and pain do not register with me as it does with others. I live with pain every day and the bad thing about it, I dont feel it. I have learned alot during my short life and learn more everyday. Yes torture excites me because the blessing is greater than the pain. I see things in His word I am not able to share, talk about torture that feels so good..

You live with pain but don't feel it??

I know you had stroke, but.....



And have you ever dealt with debilitating pain (like, poke your eyes out pain)? Have you ever been set on fire?
 
Old 01-10-2011, 07:47 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,051,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
YOU BELEIVE THAT GOD SAYS HELL,but that dosent say that there in romans or galations now does it,its obvious that whats written in these scriptures is NOT AN ETERNAL DAMNATION FOR THOSE WHO DONT BELEIVE,but rather a justice system that deels with ones actions,....yes an impure being will have to accept the fate for which is suited and not be granted eternal life,BUT IT DOSENT SAY THAT HE/SHE WILL NEVER AGAIN BE PURE,,,,,,,maybe there more than just one life on the temporary level of existence,the material universe's,this is why we have poor people/starving people/abused people/and basicaly pain,its why bad things happen,its karma.

Psalm 145:20
The LORD preserves all who love Him,But all the wicked He will destroy.


Matthew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Proverbs 13:13
He who despises the word will be destroyed, But he who fears the commandment will be rewarded.

Mark 9:43
" If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire,

Matthew 5:22
"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ' You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.

Matthew 5:29
" If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 5:30
" If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into hell.

Psalm 73:27
For indeed, those who are far from You shall perish;You have destroyed all those who desert You for harlotry.

Psalm 52:5
God shall likewise destroy you forever;He shall take you away, and pluck you out of your dwelling place, And uproot you from the land of the living. Selah


Yup, like I said, There is Karma.... one's karma could be or

Galatians 6:7-8
7. Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows
8. Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
  • One who sows belief (faith) in Christ shall not perish and reaps eternal life
OR
  • One who sows in a life of sin, unbelief in Christ shall perish and reap eternal damnation, HELL, separation from God for all eternity...
Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations,You have destroyed the wicked; You have blotted out their name forever and ever.


Now, what does God say about false teachings, heresy and those who teach it......
Psalm 5:6
You shall destroy those who speak falsehood;The LORD abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.

Destructive Doctrines
2 Peter 2:1-20
1. But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
3. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

Doom of False Teachers

4. For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
5. and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
6. and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
7. and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked
8. (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)—
9. then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
10. and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,
11. whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.

Depravity of False Teachers

12. But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
13. and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,
14. having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
15. They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16. but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man’s voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
17. These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Deceptions of False Teachers

18. For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
19. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
20. For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

Psalm 101:5
Whoever secretly slanders his neighbor,Him I will destroy; The one who has a haughty look and a proud heart, Him I will not endure.

 
Old 01-10-2011, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,906,266 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by herefornow View Post
You live with pain but don't feel it??

I know you had stroke, but.....



And have you ever dealt with debilitating pain (like, poke your eyes out pain)? Have you ever been set on fire?
Like I said it is hard to share, no word to describe.

Yes I have felt those pains but they go away. I havent been set on fire. The Lord makes away for all pain to go away and the blessing that follow makes it all worthwhile.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 07:55 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,906 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pennsylvanian1 View Post
Thanks for the post. From your answers, I can tell that you've actually read the bible, and are not simply spouting speculative assertions based on a desire to continue in willful sin.

Your last paragraph says it all, and this is the primary reason for the creation of taylor made philosophies which change the truth of God into a lie.

I did want to add one thing. You'd mentioned that the slightest sin would make us worthy of eternal torment. I wanted to offer, in clarification, that God actually tells the readers of the bible why unbelievers will be worthy of judgment.


Hebrews 10:26


If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there is no sacrifice for sins left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated, as an unholy thing, the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay and again, “The Lord will judge his people 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.




Thanks again
sounds like the hebrews who wrote that paragraph were havin a realy bad day that day,just because someone writes something in a book,dosent make it true,besides there s nothing there about eternal torment,of course god will punish people, but for what they do not what they beleive!!!!!!!,,
 
Old 01-10-2011, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,386,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
sounds like the hebrews who wrote that paragraph were havin a realy bad day that day,just because someone writes something in a book,dosent make it true,besides there s nothing there about eternal torment,of course god will punish people, but for what they do not what they beleive!!!!!!!,,

Actually, that letter was written to Jewish converts to Christianity, and many of them were judged when they trampled Christ underfoot and shrank back from the gospel, in 70 A.D. (father, forgive them)

I love it when preachers and teachers pull Hebrews 10:26-31 out to scare the Gentiles 2000 years later.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 08:19 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Refer to the following thread.

The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment POST #203



Refer to the following thread.

www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/1097327-jesus-christ-will-reign-forever.html



You don't understand the doctrine of divine decrees. In eternity past God in His omniscience knew all things, both the reality and the potential. What is and what might have been. God knew every thought, decision, and action that His creatures would make. He knew the ramifications of those decisions and actions. He also knew what the ramifications would have been if any decision other than the decision that was made had been made. Therefore, God, knowing what actually would become reality, as opposed to what might have been, decreed that what each of His creatures would actually decide would certainly occur.

The divine decrees - actually one big decree do not cause anyone to make a certain choice. The divine decrees simply make certain that what man and angelic free will would decide would certainly happen.

Had you made a different decision with regard to some particular thing, then God would have included that other decision in His divine decree instead of the decision which you did make.

God's sovereignty and His omniscience do not negate man's free will. God's omniscience simply took cognizance of whatever decision you make and His divine decree in eternity past makes certain that that volitional decision becomes a reality.

God didn't make you decide anything. He knew what you would decide and enabled it to occur by entering that decision into His divine decrees. He left out of His divine decrees the other decisions that you might have made but chose not to. Therefore the choice that you make is certain from eternity past to become reality, whereas the decisions you did not make remain only a potential.

God's sovereignty gave man free will and His divine decrees made man's free will decisions a certainty.



Refer to the following thread.

The Orthodox View of Hell is correct in that Hell is a place of Conscious Everlasting Torment POSTS #63,112, and 120.

Man is born spiritually dead because God imputed Adam's original sin to the genetically acquired old sin nature. A baby is born spiritually dead long before he is able to commit a personal sin.

When Adam sinned, he acquired a propensity to sin - an old sin nature, which the Bible calls 'the old man' and 'the flesh'. The reason that Jesus had to come into the world by a virgin birth is because the sin nature is passed down through the male.

When a baby is born God imputes Adam's original sin to the genetically acquired sin nature. This results in immediate spiritual death - separation from God.

God did not wait around for each person to commit a personal sin before condemning him. He imputed Adam's original sin to the sin nature and condemned each person at the moment of physical birth.

Our personal sins were set aside until Jesus came into the world and God the Father imputed our personal sins to Jesus who was judged for them.
your philosophy sounds like this to me here...god is just experimenting with humans,,,,,,experimenting what though,well let me put it into perspective of what you are saying.

he creates a man and woman,out of his own choice and not theres,then He temps them bye using a serpent to tell lies,(why did god allow satan to temp them in the first place,he could have stopped it,therefore stopping sin altogether,oh yeah we wouldnt exist then)then they fall for the lie and now they are sinners,and because of this everyone that is born here after are now automaticaly sinners,and doomed to a place where it dosent even mention in the bible when it as created,although it mentions the heavens and earth.

now because of something that happened years ago,6000 according to some,people are being born,and God is watching all of them,but now heres the thing,He knows that each one that is born will make choices and that probably most of them will make the wrong choice(and the choice isnt even actions,but just what one beleives) and in doing this they enter the firy place forever,and they will suffer in this life and the next,all because some adam took a bite out of an apple(bye the way their was no mention of an apple in the original texts,rather the tree of knowledge was figuritilvly used).

now although He knows wthat these people.good people and not so good are goin to burn forever,he still creates them,for what i ask is it purely for His amusement,,,oh sorry i forgot you already ansered that in a previous post,,,he's teaching the angels a lesson.hes burning people forever just to teach a someone else a lesson.

you may be good at quoting scripture and that,but when put into simple terms your philosophy is way way out there,man!!!!!!

there is more truth in a childs heart than their is in all youve said here on this thread,,,,o.k. ill accept that the scriptures are interesting but the way youve interpreted them is off the wall,,,,,,

Jesus said''come to me with the heart of a child'',now go tell a child what you have said God is going to do(,infact according to you it was his plan all along to torture people),and watch the fear enter their beutiful little hearts,that aint of God pal,but rather the opposite,its not christ consioussness your preaching ,rather anti-Christ,the exact oppossite.........FEAR IS THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE.

ask yourself what God really wants,then ask yourself,if God wants it then its obviously goin to happen,in other words if god wants everyone to be happy,living in harmony and freedom,in an eternal relationship with Him,then HIS WILL WILL BE DONE.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 08:24 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GloryB View Post
I think we keep thinking on this subject based on our current limited knowledge and perception. Once we are in a position of understanding all things....then everything God says now will make perfect sense to us. Until that time comes though, to make judgment calls based on our limited understanding and play around with eternity trying to over-think it...is probably a foolish choice. Best just to trust Him and do what He says. The rest of the puzzle will come together at the right time.
i know ,but a little common sense goes along way too.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 02:49 AM
 
20,324 posts, read 15,687,589 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
your philosophy sounds like this to me here...god is just experimenting with humans,,,,,,experimenting what though,well let me put it into perspective of what you are saying.

he creates a man and woman,out of his own choice and not theres,then He temps them bye using a serpent to tell lies,(why did god allow satan to temp them in the first place,he could have stopped it,therefore stopping sin altogether,oh yeah we wouldnt exist then)then they fall for the lie and now they are sinners,and because of this everyone that is born here after are now automaticaly sinners,and doomed to a place where it dosent even mention in the bible when it as created,although it mentions the heavens and earth.

now because of something that happened years ago,6000 according to some,people are being born,and God is watching all of them,but now heres the thing,He knows that each one that is born will make choices and that probably most of them will make the wrong choice(and the choice isnt even actions,but just what one beleives) and in doing this they enter the firy place forever,and they will suffer in this life and the next,all because some adam took a bite out of an apple(bye the way their was no mention of an apple in the original texts,rather the tree of knowledge was figuritilvly used).

now although He knows wthat these people.good people and not so good are goin to burn forever,he still creates them,for what i ask is it purely for His amusement,,,oh sorry i forgot you already ansered that in a previous post,,,he's teaching the angels a lesson.hes burning people forever just to teach a someone else a lesson.

you may be good at quoting scripture and that,but when put into simple terms your philosophy is way way out there,man!!!!!!

there is more truth in a childs heart than their is in all youve said here on this thread,,,,o.k. ill accept that the scriptures are interesting but the way youve interpreted them is off the wall,,,,,,
The Scriptures are far, far more than something which is merely interesting. The Bible which is the written word of God, is the absolute norm and standard by which truth is measured. It is God's message to man, and the New Testament Epistles contain the doctrines by which the church-age believer can advance to spiritual maturity.

Quote:
Jesus said''come to me with the heart of a child'',now go tell a child what you have said God is going to do(,infact according to you it was his plan all along to torture people),and watch the fear enter their beutiful little hearts,that aint of God pal,but rather the opposite,its not christ consioussness your preaching ,rather anti-Christ,the exact oppossite.........FEAR IS THE OPPOSITE OF LOVE.
No it was not God's plan all along to torture people, and I never said that it was.

Quote:
ask yourself what God really wants,then ask yourself,if God wants it then its obviously goin to happen,in other words if god wants everyone to be happy,living in harmony and freedom,in an eternal relationship with Him,then HIS WILL WILL BE DONE.
God wants every believer to advance to spiritual maturity. That can only be done through consistent intake of Bible doctrine.

A wise man when confronted with something that he doesn't understand will make an effort to learn about it before attempting to evaluate it. You cannot put into perspective that which you know nothing about.

Everything that I post on this forum is fundamental Bible doctrine. And there is no philosophy involved. The vast majority of believers know very little about the word of God. Most believers live their lives on this earth in spiritual ignorance and are loser believers. They, though saved, are casualties in the invisible spiritual warfare which rages all about us.

Ephesians 6:10 'Finally, be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of His might. 11] Put on the full armor of God, that you may be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. 12] For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.'

This spiritual warfare, this angelic conflict is very real and the existence of human history is related to it. It is something that every believer should understand.

Contrary to your uninformed attempt to put into perspective that which I have said, God is not experimenting with anything. He has a plan which He is working out throughout the course of human history and into eternity future. And mans existence is indeed related to the angelic conflict. And the angels are indeed learning from observing human history.

1 Peter 1:8 'And though you have not seen Him, you love Him, and though you do not see Him now, but believe in Him, you greatly rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory. 9] obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls. 10] As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry. 11] Seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. 12] It was evealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you, in these things which now have been announced to you through those who preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven --things into which angels long to look.

Now, if you can set aside your attitude, and assuming that you have any interest in learning about the truth of things, here again is access to information concerning the angelic conflict.

The Angelic Conflict; the Spiritual Warfare

As for other things which I have said on this thread, it is all Scriptural. Now, if you are simply intent on being antagonistic toward fundamental Bible doctrine then you will not expose yourself to it, and that is your right. If however, you have any interest in learning something about what God has revealed in His word, here is a place where you can get some excellent Bible teaching. Fundamentals : Country Bible Church - Brenham, TX

The choice is yours.
 
Old 01-11-2011, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,116,987 times
Reputation: 866
Part 1: God did not wait around for each person to commit a personal sin before condemning him. He imputed Adam's original sin to the sin nature and condemned each person at the moment of physical birth. - mike555

Part 2: God did not wait around for each person to obey God before justifying him. He imputed Jesus' righteousness to the new nature and justified each person at the moment of physical birth. (see Romans 5)

Praise God for the Gift of His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ!!

Blessings,
brian
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