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Old 01-08-2011, 02:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
Maybe I am missing something but how can someone believe the Bible and not believe in Eternal Hell. Its clearly descripted of what its going to be like. Also if im not mistaken it was stated earlier in this topic that God is a God of love which is true but if you will remember correctly is is also a God of hate when it comes to sin and he even said he hates workers of iniquity. It is a nice thought to not have EH but realistically its there.
if the bible says that god hates sin,that dosent nescessaritly mean that He hates sinners,does he not love all living entitys.yep everyone desrves punishgment now and again like a loving father will punish his child to teach him/her,and he might hate what they done,but that dosent mean that he hates the child.

now if an ordinary human being who is full of imperfection wouldnt have the heart to torture someone forever,then why do people beleive that god who is greater than anything,and whos love is higher than anything torture people for eternity,,,,,,,,,,if the answer is''well their a book called the bible and we have interpreted it as to beleive that God is goin to burn people'',then i say stop reading it or go find a different inerpretation,jesus spoke in a flowery language,using parables for people to understand

 
Old 01-08-2011, 02:40 PM
 
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Mike 555,wrote in an earlier post ,that even the smallest sin against the Father deserves eternal punishment,

their is nothing man can do to hurt god,He is above and beyond all material nature,why would he feel that He has to punish someone forever for commiting a crime that dosent effect Him,the sin effect us though thats why He wants us not to sin,because it effects our purity,hich effects our happiness,all He wants is for us to be happy,and if He needs to teach us not to sin bye punishment so we can be happy,then he'll do it,either that or were all just doomed to eternity in hell,nice knowin yas all hope you enjoyed the little bit of hapiness you had while you were hear tryin to learn.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
Mike 555,wrote in an earlier post ,that even the smallest sin against the Father deserves eternal punishment,

their is nothing man can do to hurt god,He is above and beyond all material nature,why would he feel that He has to punish someone forever for commiting a crime that dosent effect Him,the sin effect us though thats why He wants us not to sin,because it effects our purity,hich effects our happiness,all He wants is for us to be happy,and if He needs to teach us not to sin bye punishment so we can be happy,then he'll do it,either that or were all just doomed to eternity in hell,nice knowin yas all hope you enjoyed the little bit of hapiness you had while you were hear tryin to learn.
The problem with typical fundamentalist thinking is that they always forget that everything has a purpose and that God will bring good out of evil and they forget that we are born into this world (passing through time and history) in order to learn about what is right and what is not right.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 03:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Doeable great post.

Mike do you have a scripture for this that God knew who would and wouldn't believe?.
Because God is omniscient He has always known everything. Both the actual and the potential. He has always known the decisions of everyone of His creatures and the results of those decisions, and He has always known all of the possible alternative decisions that His creatures might of made but did not make. And He knows what the results of those alternative decisions would have been had they been made.

God's foreknowledge is a subcategory of God's omniscience and deals only with the actual, the reality. God has always known who would believe in Christ.

Romans 8:29 'For whom He foreknew, He also predestined (not to salvation, for predestination does not concern salvation, but rather concerns what God has predestined the believer to) to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren 30] and whom He predestined, these He also called, and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

We don't believe in Christ because God chose us. God chose the believer because He knew the believer would believe.

Ephesians 1:4 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world (Kosmou), that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love.

An army officer stands before his platoon and says he wants volunteers for a mission. He tells those who wish to volunteer to take one step forward. Out of the platoon, four men volunteer and so take one step forward. So the officer says, I choose you, you, you, and you. They were chosen because they made the decision to take a step forward.

And so it is with God. But because God is omniscient and knew from eternity past who would choose to 'take a step forward', God chose them before the foundation of the world.

He knew also who would not believe in Christ, and these are left under condemnation because they would not accept God's grace provision for their salvation. In rejecting God's provision for their salvation, God has no choice but to keep them eternally separated from Him.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 03:25 PM
 
309 posts, read 437,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
if the bible says that god hates sin,that dosent nescessaritly mean that He hates sinners,does he not love all living entitys.yep everyone desrves punishgment now and again like a loving father will punish his child to teach him/her,and he might hate what they done,but that dosent mean that he hates the child.

now if an ordinary human being who is full of imperfection wouldnt have the heart to torture someone forever,then why do people beleive that god who is greater than anything,and whos love is higher than anything torture people for eternity,,,,,,,,,,if the answer is''well their a book called the bible and we have interpreted it as to beleive that God is goin to burn people'',then i say stop reading it or go find a different inerpretation,jesus spoke in a flowery language,using parables for people to understand
There is not a scripture in the Bible that says God loves everyone. Again thats a nice thought to believe but its not true. I know this sounds very harsh and is not politcally correct in todays society but he is also a God of hate. Scipture does state that he loved Jacob but he hated Esau. Good luck in your search for the question of is there an Eternal Hell as I know what my bible says and where I stand on this subject.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
There is not a scripture in the Bible that says God loves everyone. Again thats a nice thought to believe but its not true. I know this sounds very harsh and is not politcally correct in todays society but he is also a God of hate. Scipture does state that he loved Jacob but he hated Esau. Good luck in your search for the question of is there an Eternal Hell as I know what my bible says and where I stand on this subject.
It SOUNDS very harsh because it IS
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:17 PM
 
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Quote:
God knew who would believe in Christ for salvation, and who wouldn't. And He did decide to bring into the world all who have born, knowing that many would not believe. God's purpose was to show the angels who rebelled against Him that they were without excuse.
That's a little insulting, knowing that the only reason I was brought into existence was to teach the angels a lesson! To heck with them. Let them learn on their own!
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:26 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,932,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
There is not a scripture in the Bible that says God loves everyone. Again thats a nice thought to believe but its not true. I know this sounds very harsh and is not politcally correct in todays society but he is also a God of hate. Scipture does state that he loved Jacob but he hated Esau. Good luck in your search for the question of is there an Eternal Hell as I know what my bible says and where I stand on this subject.
there are alot of things that are true that are not in the bible,their is an infinate amount of knowledge about God so obviously the bible is incomplete in knowledge of God.

you go on as if god is incapable of showing mercy,commpassion,tolerance,patience,understanding and most of all loving not only those who beleive but those who dont beleive.why did Jesus say''love thy enemy'',if He thought that God Himself was incapable of doing this.you cant put limits onto God if He is limited then He is not God.

so you go ahead and beleive that God is a harsh being and incapable of loving those who either dont beleive or never had a chance to beleive.

i only wrote 10 reasons off the top of my head,im sure the list could go on and on,it is the proof that what your saying is lies,to be god their are certain aspect to Him,certain quality's,powers,and charachteristics,im sorry but you obviously dont understand what(never mind who)god is.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Because God is omniscient He has always known everything. Both the actual and the potential. He has always known the decisions of everyone of His creatures and the results of those decisions, and He has always known all of the possible alternative decisions that His creatures might of made but did not make. And He knows what the results of those alternative decisions would have been had they been made.

God's foreknowledge is a subcategory of God's omniscience and deals only with the actual, the reality. God has always known who would believe in Christ.

Romans 8:29 'For whom He foreknew, He also predestined (not to salvation, for predestination does not concern salvation, but rather concerns what God has predestined the believer to) to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren 30] and whom He predestined, these He also called, and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

We don't believe in Christ because God chose us. God chose the believer because He knew the believer would believe.

Ephesians 1:4 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world (Kosmou), that we should be holy and blameless before Him in love.

An army officer stands before his platoon and says he wants volunteers for a mission. He tells those who wish to volunteer to take one step forward. Out of the platoon, four men volunteer and so take one step forward. So the officer says, I choose you, you, you, and you. They were chosen because they made the decision to take a step forward.

And so it is with God. But because God is omniscient and knew from eternity past who would choose to 'take a step forward', God chose them before the foundation of the world.

He knew also who would not believe in Christ, and these are left under condemnation because they would not accept God's grace provision for their salvation. In rejecting God's provision for their salvation, God has no choice but to keep them eternally separated from Him.
thats the whole reason that i wrote number 1--He obviously kne we were goin to burn in hell,so why create a child knowing that brutal destiny awaits it...i cant understand why you cant see that,oh yeah you have to beleive the bible,but what interpretation you beleive is up to you,there are others and the UR's could teach you other ways to perceive these things
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:30 PM
 
20,306 posts, read 15,665,676 times
Reputation: 7433
Quote:
Originally Posted by deerdog View Post
There is not a scripture in the Bible that says God loves everyone. Again thats a nice thought to believe but its not true. I know this sounds very harsh and is not politcally correct in todays society but he is also a God of hate. Scipture does state that he loved Jacob but he hated Esau. Good luck in your search for the question of is there an Eternal Hell as I know what my bible says and where I stand on this subject.
Actually God does love everyone...However He loves the world impersonally, while He has personal love for the believer.

John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.'

Romans 5:8 'But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


Now, God's love for the world is not personal love, but rather it is impersonal love. Basically, it is God because of Who and what He is, showing mercy to the world, in sending Jesus Christ into the world to die for the sins of the entire human race. Therefore, sin is not the issue in salvation. The only issue in salvation is placing your faith in Christ for salvation.

The believer however is the object of God's personal love. Because the believer has been imputed with God's very own perfect righteousness and declared justified, God can express personal love to the believer.

As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, human characteristics such as hatred, jealousy, anger, etc... are anthopopathisms ascribing to God in language of accommodation (God graceously allows this), human characteristics which He doesn't really possess, in order to express infinite divine policy toward sin and evil, in terms that the finite human mind can understand, and which would otherwise be beyond human understanding.

God's hatred toward Esau, and His love toward Jacob, simply relates to the fact that God, without interfering with their human volition, and in fact taking cognizance of their volition, had different plans for each of them. Israel was to come through Jacob while the Edomites came from Esau.

Because Jesus has already paid for man's sins, unregenerate man will spend eternity in the lake of fire - hell, not because of sin, but because of rejection of Jesus Christ as Savior. To reject Jesus Christ is to reject God's provision of salvation for man. And God therefore has no choice but to leave in condemnation those who reject that provision. When God's mercy is rejected, then God's justice must come into play. God has no choice in the matter. He cannot be other than Who He is. God is incapable of compromising any facet of His essence. He wants everyone to come to Him for salvation, but because He gave man free will, man can say no to God and must reap the consequence of that decision. Eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.
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