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Old 01-07-2011, 08:55 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,932,423 times
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1--God would know the fate of a living entity before they even came here,so if their fate was eternal hell then he wouldnt have created them in the first place.

2--God is full of mercy.not just partially but fully.

3--God is tolerant. He has an unlimited amount of the stuff.

4--God beleives in justice,and no crime fits an eternal punishment,it would be like torturing someone for their whole life for robbing a grape,at least the torture would end,so you couldnt even compare this punishment to what God is supposidly goin to do.

5-Jesus' words-''forgive them father ,they dont know what they are doing'',shows that God can forgive,if Jesus didnt beleive this then He ouldnt have askes,an the fact that he knew that our sins are commited only out of ignorance,ignorance of our true selves which are eternally full of bliss and knowledge.

6-Jesus' words-''what you reap,so shall you so'',so punishment only comes with what is just,we ill be punished according to our crimes,and no crime deserves eternal punishment,for their would be nothig good to come out of it and nothing learned.

7--Jesus' words--''easy to love your freind but to love thy enemy?''-no if Jesus is a representation of god then why do you think He'd say that if God didnt beleive in it Himself,God loves all including His enemys,he might treat them different to teach them,but to torture them forever,that just dont fit the boot!

8--its damn right satanic--torture is considered among the world as evil,even in wars torture is banned,hitler tortured some of his captured enemys,but at least the torture ended,so to think that God would torture someone for eternity would be branding Him as worse than any evil demon that ever entered the planet.

9--anyone who dosent beleive must burn!!!!!!!!!!!!..,this concept must be the worst and most easy to see through,after all their are many wo will never even hear of Jesus,and why would god have created life with so many diverse customs,so that they would differ from christianity.

10--God is Love--Love wuldnt have anything to do with torturing people forever,it is the opposite,Love only Loves,and He wants everybody in on all that heavenly glory,but we have to find it ourselves,through Him,He is the emodiement of Pure Transcendental Love,ecstatic bliss,we are the parts of the whole and he is the whole,we are the children he is the father,no father ould have even one of their sons or daughters burn forever,and its not like He couldnt do anything about it after all He is All Powerfull,so think again folks who still beleive in this concept,a concept that was handed down for the purpose of power through fear,something that im sure god had nothing to do with,or maybe He did just to test ones intelligence,and one's opinion of Him,the charachter of God the Supreme Person,,what is He really like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!aan unjust punisher or a real freind of all living entity's who is impartial to all.

Last edited by dobeable; 01-07-2011 at 09:10 PM..

 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:29 PM
 
1,492 posts, read 2,224,274 times
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all good ones certainly God is all-knowing and He would not create beings in His image,only to torture them eternally.at the least,that would be like shooting oneself in the foot,and I think God is smarter than that,and not the least bit evil.to think He would do that,one would have to believe He has a sadisitic side to Him,and we know that is not true at all.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 11:41 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,753,636 times
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Hey dobeable, that's a great post!! Logically ET makes no sense at all. I wish all ETer's would stop to contemplate that for a moment.......or two..........and come to the realization that ET is most definitely the bad guy here, not UR. It's of the devil, it's the great "delusion", it's pagan in it's origin and it's just an out and out lie.

Edit to add: I'm sorry, I tried really hard to resist saying anything but this is a large pet peeve of mine......I think a little "spell checking" is in order before you post something. Love and peace!
 
Old 01-08-2011, 12:01 AM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,586,534 times
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BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!

I thoroughly enjoyed reading through that, dobeable.
A most excellent read!

Thank you for posting it.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,573,110 times
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I agree, and still shake my head when I think of how many years I allowed myself to be haunted and gripped by sorrow due to the sick teaching of eternal torment. It's obviously not that hard to deceive people when they are in a state of fear of the unknown/ fear of death. It has worked for religious power brokers for eons to keep people in shackles!
 
Old 01-08-2011, 02:52 AM
 
20,305 posts, read 15,661,748 times
Reputation: 7422
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
1--God would know the fate of a living entity before they even came here,so if their fate was eternal hell then he wouldnt have created them in the first place.
God knew who would believe in Christ for salvation, and who wouldn't. And He did decide to bring into the world all who have born, knowing that many would not believe. God's purpose was to show the angels who rebelled against Him that they were without excuse. The angels had been in the presence of God. They had had access to the third heaven. And yet they rebelled. God's purpose was to show that a lower creature (man), inferior to the angels in every way, having only volition in common with the angels, never having seen God in His glory, never having been in the throne room of God, could choose for God. Not that every man would choose for God, but that among man, some would believe. And these God would save, and leave in condemnation all who rejected Him.

Quote:
2--God is full of mercy.not just partially but fully.
And God demonstrated His mercy at the cross. He made salvation possible. But salvation becomes an actuality only to those who believe in Christ.

Quote:
3--God is tolerant. He has an unlimited amount of the stuff.
No He does not.

Gen 6:13 'Then God said to Noah. ''The end of all flesh has come before Me; for the earth is filled with violence because of them (the Nephilim), and behold, I am about to destroy them with the earth.

Quote:
4--God beleives in justice,and no crime fits an eternal punishment,it would be like torturing someone for their whole life for robbing a grape,at least the torture would end,so you couldnt even compare this punishment to what God is supposidly goin to do.
Absolutely God believes in justice. God IS justice. Just as much as He is love. The slightest sin against eternal, and infinitely holy God deserves eternal punishment. It is not the length of time that it took to commit a sin that determines the severity of the punishment, it is the nature of the act. And against eternal, infinite, and perfect God, the slightest sin is deserving of an eternal penalty.

Quote:
5-Jesus' words-''forgive them father ,they dont know what they are doing'',shows that God can forgive,if Jesus didnt beleive this then He ouldnt have askes,an the fact that he knew that our sins are commited only out of ignorance,ignorance of our true selves which are eternally full of bliss and knowledge.
God does forgive those who come to Him for forgiveness. No, our sins are not committed only out of ignorance. God gave the Law to Israel to show what God expects of man, and to show that man can't keep the law and therefore is in need of a Savior.

Now are there sins committed in ignorance? Yes. But man also sins willingly, knowing full well what He is doing. And whether you knew something was a sin or not, you wanted to do it and you did it. Ignorance is no excuse..


Quote:
6-Jesus' words-''what you reap,so shall you so'',so punishment only comes with what is just,we ill be punished according to our crimes,and no crime deserves eternal punishment,for their would be nothig good to come out of it and nothing learned.
As stated above, the least sin against God who is perfect and infinitely holy, is deserving of eternal punishment.


Quote:
7--Jesus' words--''easy to love your freind but to love thy enemy?''-no if Jesus is a representation of god then why do you think He'd say that if God didnt beleive in it Himself,God loves all including His enemys,he might treat them different to teach them,but to torture them forever,that just dont fit the boot!
God's love never gets in the way of His justice. When God's mercy is rejected, then God's justice must come into play. God is perfect and infinitely holy. Therefore, no creature who possesses anything less than a righteousness equal to God's can not have an eternal relationship with God. He must instead be eternally separated from God.

But when anyone accepts Christ as Savior, then God imputes His righteousness to that person and declares him justified.

Quote:
8--its damn right satanic--torture is considered among the world as evil,even in wars torture is banned,hitler tortured some of his captured enemys,but at least the torture ended,so to think that God would torture someone for eternity would be branding Him as worse than any evil demon that ever entered the planet.
To the contrary. God is perfectly just. His ways are higher than our ways and His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. There will be torment in hell. But hell is not Dante's version of hell.

Matthew 8:29 [with reference to demons] 'And behold, they cried out, saying, ''What do we have to do with You, Son of God? Have You come here to torment us before the time?''

Mark 5:7 [with reference to a demon] 'And crying out with a loud voice, he said, ''What do I have to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God, do not torment me.''

Revelation 20:10 'And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Matthew 25:41 'Then He will say also to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed nes, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 46] ''And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.


Quote:
9--anyone who dosent beleive must burn!!!!!!!!!!!!..,this concept must be the worst and most easy to see through,after all their are many wo will never even hear of Jesus,and why would god have created life with so many diverse customs,so that they would differ from christianity.
God has made Himself known through His creation. Therefore all are without excuse. At the point of God consciousness, the point when you develop the mental ability to be able to conceive of a supreme being, God holds you responsible. Anyone who is curious about God at the moment of God consciousness, will at some point before they die, receive the Gospel. Geographic isolation is not an issue. Positive volition at God consciousness does not necessarly mean there will be positive volition at Gospel hearing.


Quote:
10--God is Love--Love wuldnt have anything to do with torturing people forever,it is the opposite,Love only Loves,and He wants everybody in on all that heavenly glory,but we have to find it ourselves,through Him,He is the emodiement of Pure Transcendental Love,ecstatic bliss,we are the parts of the whole and he is the whole,we are the children he is the father,no father ould have even one of their sons or daughters burn forever,and its not like He couldnt do anything about it after all He is All Powerfull,so think again folks who still beleive in this concept,a concept that was handed down for the purpose of power through fear,something that im sure god had nothing to do with,or maybe He did just to test ones intelligence,and one's opinion of Him,the charachter of God the Supreme Person,,what is He really like!!!!!!!!!!!!!!aan unjust punisher or a real freind of all living entity's who is impartial to all.
Every universalist distorts God's love into something that it isn't. God is love. But His love never causes God to compromise His justice. To this the universalist will reply ''but God's justice comes from His love.'' They are two different things. And God's love will not cause God to lay aside His justice.

All men are not children of God. Only those who have believed in Christ are ADOPTED as sons. The believer is a son by adoption (Rom 8:15; Eph1:5).

Universalists routinely ignore what the Scriptures say. They ignore what Jesus Himself said while on earth concerning hell. People reject the Scriptures because they do not believe that the Bible is the word of God. To these people the Bible is merely a work of man and so they dismiss what they don't like, but then they promote universalism using the very same Bible which according to them is a fallible book written by fallible men.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:25 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,570,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God's purpose was to show the angels who rebelled against Him that they were without excuse.
Yes, I remember you saying this before.

Make billions upon billions of of eternal beings (in your own image) who are foreknown to be eternally, consciously damned/tormented - all to show the angels they have no excuse.

Brilliant.

When people say this kind of stuff it's just another nail in the coffin of absurd ET doctrine.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:43 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,573,110 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Yes, I remember you saying this before.

Make billions upon billions of of eternal beings (in your own image) who are foreknown to be eternally, consciously damned/tormented - all to show the angels they have no excuse.

Brilliant.

When people say this kind of stuff it's just another nail in the coffin of absurd ET doctrine.
Ditto,

And must we have a short book-length explanation from Mr. Mike555 each time we talk about the absurdity of ET? I guess so - it's a free discussion board. I'm supposed to believe that God, in a fit of exceeding rage, intends to raise us weak mortals up out of the grave after clearly an unfair distribution of suffering in this life, only to toss the bulk of the miserable beings into a cosmic cauldron of raging fire and the He will supernaturally prevent those same un-glorified bodies from being consumed by the gigantic inferno - all so that he(God) and every ETer can finally say "I TOLD YOU SO.... hehehe...." What a beautiful plan - really glorifies the almighty, huh? And this is the gospel that fundamentalists are NOT ashamed of ???
 
Old 01-08-2011, 04:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,570,351 times
Reputation: 843
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Ditto,

And must we have a short book-length explanation from Mr. Mike555 each time we talk about the absurdity of ET? I guess so - it's a free discussion board. I'm supposed to believe that God, in a fit of exceeding rage, intends to raise us weak mortals up out of the grave after clearly an unfair distribution of suffering in this life, only to toss the bulk of the miserable beings into a cosmic cauldron of raging fire and the He will supernaturally prevent those same un-glorified bodies from being consumed by the gigantic inferno - all so that he(God) and every ETer can finally say "I TOLD YOU SO.... hehehe...." What a beautiful plan - really glorifies the almighty, huh? And this is the gospel that fundamentalists are NOT ashamed of ???
Some just, well, have no shame
 
Old 01-08-2011, 05:01 AM
 
7,866 posts, read 6,673,377 times
Reputation: 1371
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
1--God would know the fate of a living entity before they even came here,so if their fate was eternal hell then he wouldnt have created them in the first place.
2--God is full of mercy.not just partially but fully.
3--God is tolerant. He has an unlimited amount of the stuff.
4--God beleives in justice,and no crime fits an eternal punishment
5-Jesus' words-''forgive them father ,they dont know what they are doing'',
6-Jesus' words-''what you reap,so shall you so'',
7--Jesus' words--''easy to love your freind but to love thy enemy?''
8--its damn right satanic--torture
9--anyone who dosent beleive must burn!
10--God is Love--Love .
These are all wrong , ideas of rationalism that is rejected in Heaven , ideas the the adversary the anitichrist came up with, who is the author of all rejection of faith ..........The bible which is the Word of God uses the word of hades 11 times in the kjv , uses the word gahenna 12 times , and 1 time for tartarus , and 65 times for sheol, and schachath used 23 times, used abussos or abyss 9 times, used phulake or prison 4 times, uses eternal distruction 1 time, uses eternal fire 3 times, lake of fire 5 times, uses zophos or darkness 4 times, uses outer darkness 3 times, uses fiery furnace 2 times;............ See Christianity is based of the belief of the Bible and the author Lord Jesus Christ , and this belief into the Word is honor before Jesus Christ...... Then if Jesus said in the Bible than it is is so and many people will not stop believing the Word for any rationalism to put before them , for we bow to rationalism we will burn no question about it.......For an attribute of the Lord Jesus is judgement and justice
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