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Old 01-10-2011, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,899,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BunniRabbi View Post
For clarity's sake, would people mind listing which version of the Bible they are quoting when they quote it?
KJV, But look in the version you have and go from there, the version doesnt really matter.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,899,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Okay lets try another, context is the key for this one but look at the way He speaks, so literal almost callous.

Matthew 3:15 Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness.

Opinions and interpritations please.
Okay I guess we arent getting into the nitty gritty. The above clearly speaks for itself so lets what we can do next;

Well this is Jesus addressing Satan in the wilderness;

Matt 4:4 It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 7 It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 10 Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Now this is repeated in Luke 4:4,8,12 so we wont have to repeat ourselves later.

Lets see what we find in these verses.
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:18 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,371,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Okay I guess we arent getting into the nitty gritty. The above clearly speaks for itself so lets what we can do next;

Well this is Jesus addressing Satan in the wilderness;

Matt 4:4 It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 7 It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 10 Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Now this is repeated in Luke 4:4,8,12 so we wont have to repeat ourselves later.

Lets see what we find in these verses.
Well, what I found by reading where Jesus is quoting these from is Deut 6 and 8. Both times these are dealing with God's commandments, and both times they are instructions for LIFE. So, what was Jesus REALLY telling Satan? Or rather, to the rest of us who might be inclined to accept the temptations this 'world' has to offer. Are they rejecting Life?
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Old 01-13-2011, 01:28 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,039,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Okay I guess we arent getting into the nitty gritty. The above clearly speaks for itself so lets what we can do next;

Well this is Jesus addressing Satan in the wilderness;

Matt 4:4 It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 7 It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 10 Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Now this is repeated in Luke 4:4,8,12 so we wont have to repeat ourselves later.

Lets see what we find in these verses.
Concerning Christ's temptation, observe, that directly after he was declared to be the Son of God, and the Saviour of the world, he was tempted; great privileges, and special tokens of Divine favour, will not secure any from being tempted. But if the Holy Spirit witness to our being adopted as children of God, that will answer all the suggestions of the evil spirit. Christ was directed to the combat.
If we presume upon our own strength, and tempt the devil to tempt us, we provoke God to leave us to ourselves. Others are tempted, when drawn aside of their own lust, and enticed, Jas 1:14; but our Lord Jesus had no corrupt nature, therefore he was tempted only by the devil.
In the temptation of Christ it appears that our enemy is subtle, spiteful, and very daring; but he can be resisted. It is a comfort to us that Christ suffered, being tempted; for thus it appears that our temptations, if not yielded to, are not sins, they are afflictions only.

Satan aimed in all his temptations, to bring Christ to sin against God.
  • 1. He tempted Him to despair of his Father's goodness, and to distrust his Father's care concerning him. It is one of the wiles of Satan to take advantage of our outward condition; and those who are brought into straits have need to double their guard. Christ answered all the temptations of Satan with "It is written;" to set us an example, he appealed to what was written in the Scriptures. This method we must take, when at any time we are tempted to sin.
    Let us learn not to take any wrong courses for our supply, when our wants are ever so pressing: in some way or other the Lord will provide.
  • 2. Satan tempted Christ to presume upon his Father's power and protection, in a point of safety. Nor are any extremes more dangerous than despair and presumption, especially in the affairs of our souls. Satan has no objection to holy places as the scene of his assaults. Let us not, in any place, be off our watch.
    The holy city is the place, where he does, with the greatest advantage, tempt men to pride and presumption. All high places are slippery places; advancements in the world makes a man a mark for Satan to shoot his fiery darts at.

    Is Satan so well versed in Scripture as to be able to quote it readily? He is so. It is possible for a man to have his head full of Scripture notions, and his mouth full of Scripture expressions, while his heart is full of bitter enmity to God and to all goodness.
    Satan misquoted the words. If we go out of our way, out of the way of our duty, we forfeit the promise, and put ourselves out of God's protection. This passage, De 8:3, made against the tempter, therefore he left out part. This promise is firm and stands good. But shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
  • No. 3. Satan tempted Christ to idolatry with the offer of the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them. The glory of the world is the most charming temptation to the unthinking and unwary; by that men are most easily imposed upon.
    Christ was tempted to worship Satan. He rejected the proposal with abhorrence, to get thee hence, Satan!

    To some temptations are openly wicked; and they are not merely to be opposed, but rejected at once.
    It is good to be quick and firm in resisting temptation. If we resist the devil he will flee from us. But the soul that deliberates is almost overcome.
    We find but few who can decidedly reject such baits as Satan offers; yet what is a man profited if he gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
    Christ was succoured after the temptation, for his encouragement to go on in his undertaking, and for our encouragement to trust in him; for as he knew, by experience, what it was to suffer, being tempted, so he knew what it was to be succoured, being tempted; therefore we may expect, not only that he will feel for his tempted people, but that he will come to them with seasonable relief.


Matthew 4 Commentary - The temptation of Christ. - BibleGateway.com
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Old 01-13-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Oregon
3,066 posts, read 2,936,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc View Post
In Matthew 2 :14......Jesus, his mother and Joseph fled into Egypt ...and was there until the death of King Harold when Jesus grew up in Roman Egypt according to Gospel of Matthew......Harold died in 9 A.D. according to History and Jesus was called out of Egypt by the Lord as in Hosea 11:1 Prophecied..... So this would also fit into the time line when Jesus came to Jerusalem in Luke 2:42 when Jesus was twelve years old , but from Luke 2:22-through to verse 41 is a contradiction to the Gospel of Matthew histroy of Jesus early life...... See they left the child in Jerusalem for a day before they discovered he was missing....... If they were to do that in some cities today in America the child welfare would take the child and you have to spend months in court trying to get him back for any child abandonment suits........
RESPONSE:

Sorry to rain on yur parade, by King Herod the Great died in 4 BC, not 9 AD.

Hosea 11.1 refers to the Israelites, not Jesus.

"When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son. The more I called them, the more they went from me;they kept sacrificing to the Baals, and offering incense to idols."

And we really don't know what Jesus actually said. The New Testament was composed from stories about Jesus which were told long after his death.

The Church historian, Fr. Thomas Bokenkotter’s A Concise History of the Catholic Church, 1990, explains:

"Their authors did not deliberately invent of falsify facts about Jesus, but they were not primarily concerned with historical accuracy. They readily included material drawn from the Christian communities’ experience of the risen Jesus. Words, for instance, were put in the mouth of Jesus and stories were told about him which, although not historical in the strict sense, nevertheless, in the minds of the evangelists, fittingly expressed the real meaning and intent of Jesus as faith had come to perceive him."
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Old 01-13-2011, 11:45 AM
 
37,489 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Okay I guess we arent getting into the nitty gritty. The above clearly speaks for itself so lets what we can do next;

Well this is Jesus addressing Satan in the wilderness;

Matt 4:4 It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. 7 It is written again, thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. 10 Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Now this is repeated in Luke 4:4,8,12 so we wont have to repeat ourselves later.

Lets see what we find in these verses.
I would like to address the differences in our understanding, Robin . . . but I am not a mind reader. Until you actually tell us what these verses mean to YOU . . . not just post them . . . that will not be possible. Clearly, they have great significance to you . . . especially in retaining the ancient ignorance from the OT and the blasphemous descriptions of our loving God. So . . . tell us what the significance is of each of these verses that causes you to think they should be so obvious and powerful in support of the ancient ignorance about God.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
I would like to address the differences in our understanding, Robin . . . but I am not a mind reader. Until you actually tell us what these verses mean to YOU . . . not just post them . . . that will not be possible. Clearly, they have great significance to you . . . especially in retaining the ancient ignorance from the OT and the blasphemous descriptions of our loving God. So . . . tell us what the significance is of each of these verses that causes you to think they should be so obvious and powerful in support of the ancient ignorance about God.
The verses speak for themselves,"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God." The only record we have of Gods words is the Bible.
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Old 01-13-2011, 12:29 PM
 
37,489 posts, read 25,224,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
The verses speak for themselves,"Man shall not live by bread alone but by every word from the mouth of God." The only record we have of Gods words is the Bible.
Then you must NOT believe that Jesus abides with us. You must NOT believe that God has "written in our hearts". . . and you must NOT believe that the Holy Spirit within CAN guide us without teachers to what God has actually "written in our hearts" . . . IF WE ARE SINCERE enough NOT to try to justify our own desires and NOT to justify the ancient ignorance and superstitions of our ancestors beliefs about the nature of our loving God. We are NOT supposed to use blind faith in the descriptions "written in ink" to deny what is in our hearts about the evil in those ignorant beliefs about God.

We ahould NOT justify overriding what our hearts say by rationalizations like "God's ways are not our ways" or "God works in mysterious ways" or . . . whatever excuses we can dream up or find in the words "written in ink" to make Good what our heart tells us in all sincerity . . . is Evil. We should NOT glorify the retention of ancient ignorance and superstition by the term Faith. We should have faith in the LIVING Word of God Jesus Christ . . . as long as we SINCERELY wish to know Him. He truly still exists and is with each and every one of us. Unfortunately . . . we all don't listen to His Holy Spirit within sincerely.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,899,792 times
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Whoa dude your missing the point and assuming additives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Then you must NOT believe that Jesus abides with us.
Why not? Once we believe we are endowed with His spirit.

Quote:
You must NOT believe that God has "written in our hearts". . .
Why not? It confirms the Bible.

Quote:
and you must NOT believe that the Holy Spirit within CAN guide us without teachers to what God has actually "written in our hearts"
Why not? Teachers just help us understand.

Quote:
. . . IF WE ARE SINCERE enough NOT to try to justify our own desires and NOT to justify the ancient ignorance and superstitions of our ancestors beliefs about the nature of our loving God. We are NOT supposed to use blind faith in the descriptions "written in ink" to deny what is in our hearts about the evil in those ignorant beliefs about God.
You assume they were ignorant to justify your rejection.

Quote:
We ahould NOT justify overriding what our hearts say by rationalizations like "God's ways are not our ways" or "God works in mysterious ways" or . . . whatever excuses we can dream up or find in the words "written in ink" to make Good what our heart tells us in all sincerity . . . is Evil. We should NOT glorify the retention of ancient ignorance and superstition by the term Faith. We should have faith in the LIVING Word of God Jesus Christ . . . as long as we SINCERELY wish to know Him. He truly still exists and is with each and every one of us. Unfortunately . . . we all don't listen to His Holy Spirit within sincerely.
Careful my friend, Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than anything else and desperately sick- who can understand it?"

We use all these things to come to the truth and must not reject any unless they contradict the rest. The Bible is merely our measuring stick for understanding the rest.
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Old 01-13-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,899,792 times
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Okay now lets not get off track, Hot and Munchkin thank you for your responces, very helpful.

Alright lets get on with it;

Matt 4:17 Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

What a way to start a ministry.
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