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Old 01-09-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,711,233 times
Reputation: 1351

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Of course this will cause them to be labeled heretics or even non Christians, but now that I've watched the video below, I see how these Christians are born. Now, it is important to mention that this video is does NOT reflect the author's final position relating to god. It reflects one step in his ascent toward atheism, however, from my time here, I've noticed that some of the Christians here are at this point in their lives. Some might remain there, some might revert back toward a rigid, literalist style Christians (which is hard to do) or some will become agnostics or even atheists.

The video is very interesting and the speaker is eloquent in his presentation.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0l80Alsiw40
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:22 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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So Spong does not belive a theistic God exists. Theistic = belief in the existence of a god or gods.

So Spong does not believe in the existence of a God.

The evangel (good news) is that God sent His only begotten Son into the world to save the world.

If there is no God then the whole evangel is wrong.

It is impossible to believe there is no God and still believe in Christ for to believe in Christ is to believe Christ that God, His God sent Him into the world to save the world.

So if one believes like Spong it is therefore impossible to be saved in the first place.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:33 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,711,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
So Spong does not belive a theistic God exists. Theistic = belief in the existence of a god or gods.

So Spong does not believe in the existence of a God.

The evangel (good news) is that God sent His only begotten Son into the world to save the world.

If there is no God then the whole evangel is wrong.

It is impossible to believe there is no God and still believe in Christ for to believe in Christ is to believe Christ that God, His God sent Him into the world to save the world.

So if one believes like Spong it is therefore impossible to be saved in the first place.
This to me proves what has ALWAYS been the case even from the start - Christianity is one of many Christianities and the different sides will often claim the other is NOT Christian or cannot be Christian because of one or more technicalities based on a variety of different interpretations of things.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:50 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,430,337 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
This to me proves what has ALWAYS been the case even from the start - Christianity is one of many Christianities and the different sides will often claim the other is NOT Christian or cannot be Christian because of one or more technicalities based on a variety of different interpretations of things.
Whatever you wish to claim. It doesn't change the fact that one cannot be a Christian, cannot be saved, if they do not believe the evangel. God sacrificed His perfect, loving Son for mankind. It is that which saves mankind. Anything that takes God out of the equation destroys the evangel. It is not a technicality.

Of course eventually all mankind will be saved due to God sacrificing His perfect Son for all mankind. But you can't believe the Son is divine if you believe He did not have a Father Who is God.

I'm curious what you are trying to do here on this board anyway. Are you trying to get conscripts to your atheism club? Between you and ancient warrior I see you two are trying to go after the weak sheep.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:16 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,711,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Whatever you wish to claim. It doesn't change the fact that one cannot be a Christian, cannot be saved, if they do not believe the evangel. God sacrificed His perfect, loving Son for mankind. It is that which saves mankind. Anything that takes God out of the equation destroys the evangel. It is not a technicality.

Of course eventually all mankind will be saved due to God sacrificing His perfect Son for all mankind. But you can't believe the Son is divine if you believe He did not have a Father Who is God.

I'm curious what you are trying to do here on this board anyway. Are you trying to get conscripts to your atheism club? Between you and ancient warrior I see you two are trying to go after the weak sheep.
I am not trying to go after one soul. I just post and could care less what people do with it.

Let me once again reiterate something here. What you see me do here is new to you, but not new to me on the internet. I've been doing this since 1999 except that in 1999, I posted on the internet as a strong Christian who interpreted the bible literally. I was no different than you, sir. I used to visit Christian boards and debate with atheists and post my interpretation of Christian theology (aligned with the one you subscribe to now). I did this without invitation or request. I just found it highly entertaining and still do. I did not care who became saved or whatever. The same passion is still there. I just DON'T post as a Christian anymore. Who pays attention to me is none of my business. Who finds wisdom, truth, falsity or takes issue is for the debate.

Oh, it is my personality to be an extremely generous person. I don't have money so I share what I can and that is information.
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Old 01-09-2011, 08:17 PM
 
17,696 posts, read 8,870,974 times
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"The absence of one thing, leaves only the presence of the other."


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Old 01-09-2011, 10:05 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,240,819 times
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I'm not trying to get too judgmental but I do think rejection of a theistic God means you are not a Christian in any normal sense. One person I know who believed in Christ, but not God considered a term like "Jesusian" or something. Possibly you could be a "Christocentric Humanists" or "Humanistic Christian" or something.
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:08 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,711,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I'm not trying to get too judgmental but I do think rejection of a theistic God means you are not a Christian in any normal sense. One person I know who believed in Christ, but not God considered a term like "Jesusian" or something. Possibly you could be a "Christocentric Humanists" or "Humanistic Christian" or something.

How is Spong viewed in the Catholic world?
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:18 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,240,819 times
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I'm not exactly buzzed into the entire Catholic world even if maybe I act like I am. I don't know of much support for him, but I'm in a fairly conservative Catholic world. I think the biggest group probably doesn't know or care what Spong thinks on anything.
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:17 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,568,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
So Spong does not belive a theistic God exists. Theistic = belief in the existence of a god or gods.

So Spong does not believe in the existence of a God.

The evangel (good news) is that God sent His only begotten Son into the world to save the world.

If there is no God then the whole evangel is wrong.

It is impossible to believe there is no God and still believe in Christ for to believe in Christ is to believe Christ that God, His God sent Him into the world to save the world.

So if one believes like Spong it is therefore impossible to be saved in the first place.
Yep. Well said. Are the ETers and Atheists in cahoots? I'm beginning to see a pattern of that.
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