U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-10-2011, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,241,048 times
Reputation: 837

Advertisements

So...there are those who fervently believe but interpret in error Scripture, teaching that all who die unrepentant sinners will all suffer the same punishment...that being - eternal waves of flames forever burning them and tormenting them all...and then there are those who rightly divide the word concerning this matter and understand through correct interpretation that this is a lie from the pit of hell...just another one of Satan's tools to instill fear into the hearts of man and draw them COMPLETELY! away from being all they could be in Him...and it has worked wonderfully for him...satan...only he doesn't care about you...he's just revelling in the fact that you have totally left ALL TRUTH! because of this one BIG! FAT! lie!

My purpose for today is to spread a little "SON-shine" on this subject!!!...AMEN?...AMEN!!!


Let's begin, shall we....?...


Matthew 25:41 Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye *cursed* [and *THESE* shall go away into everlasting punishment..."], into everlasting fire [it is the fire here that is described as everlasting, nothing about the everlasting burning and torment of every single person who dies not knowing the LORD], prepared for the devil and his angels. [We know, according to Scripture, that those who have been *marked* by the beast and worship him, the beast and his angels, along with the false prophet...THESE! will suffer everlasting punishment]. It is the punishment which is eternal - the second death is absolutely eternal...(everlasting). No reprieve, no more chances.

Let's look deeper into the above passage (Matt. 25:41) by rightly dividing the Word of God...line upon line...precept upon precept:

In Romans 2:7, it states: "...to those who by perseverance in doing good, *seek* for glory and honor and *immortality*, eternal life;..."

...[according to Romans 2:7, we must *not* be born with an immortal soul that lives on indefinitely, anywhere, UNLESS! God "puts on" immortality (and we know, according to Scripture, that ONLY! God "puts on" immortality to ONLY! those who will abide with Him for all eternity) since we, who by persevering, *seek it*.]...

...and 1 Co 15:53 confirms this, as it states: "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." We cannot put on what we (according to you who believe ALL! will live forever in hell...BURNING!!!) already have.

...no one else gets to live eternally, EXCEPT! those to whom God has "put on" immortality...AND! those who are said in Scripture to live eternally tormented with fire and brimstone...which is 1. the beast; 2. his angels; 3. the false prophet, and 4. all those who have the "mark" of the beast on their forehead or hands...who have worshipped the beast. Everyone else dies...they are annihilated...soul dead...done. Not everyone who dies an unbeliever has died with the mark of the beast upon their forehead or hands. Not everyone who dies an unbeliever has died worshipping the beast. Surely we can agree on that...? Right...? Think about the one who died not ever having heard the Name of the LORD, therefore never had a chance to know Him, but neither worship the Beast nor have his mark upon them...

...or think about the one who died whose parents beat them if they EVER! said or did anything that would even hint at them being a believer...and Oh! SO! many more! different circumstances I could mention that would cause someone not to know the Lord and live for Him before they died...is their destiny to be tormented for eternity in flaming, burning waves of fire...? Really...? God forbid! Selah.

...now...let us read on....

Please note...that in Rev 20 it says twice - " *judged*...according to their works". If all are punished with eternal torture it would not be judgement according to their deeds - it would be the same punishment for all.

Go ahead...read this passage!...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, *according to their works*.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man *according to their works*.

Jesus taught that righteous judgment involved degrees of punishment:

Luke 12:46 the lord of that servant shall come in a day when he expecteth not, and in an hour when he knoweth not, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint his portion with the unfaithful.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, who knew his lord's will, and made not ready, nor did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes;

Luke 12:48 but he that knew not, and did things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes.

Dear soul...most of the people who have ever lived since creation have never even heard of the gospel - much less the Beast of Revelation.

EVERLASTING

Daniel 12:2 And *many* of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, *some* to everlasting life, and *some* to shame and everlasting contempt.

...*some*...not all...only *some*. It doesn't specify in this passage that *all* who awake that don't awake to everlasting life will be tormented eternally in burning fire...only *some* will...*some*.

Matthew 5:29 And shall come forth, *they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life*, and *they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation*

...only *they that have done evil will be resurrected to damnation"...not everyone who dies not knowing or living for the Lord are amongst those who willingly lived evil lives and willingly worshipped the devil...some did not die in that state. Would God punish those with eternal burning fire, who died not knowing Him or living for Him by reason of being held by another under unconscionable circumstances...powerless to change them...? Would that be the "JUST* punishment that our God would require of them...? Yes, they will be punished in the Lake of Fire, for however long it takes God to be satisfied that their punishment matched their OFFENSE...then they would die...their soul would just die, into nothingness...blackness...just as it is when we sleep now...black nothingness...<this is a JUST! reward...this is mercy!!!...from a God of mercy!...annihilation is mercy!

Please, read the following passage...think about what it says...

Revelation 14:9 And the third Angel followed them saying with a loud voice, if any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is powered out without mixture into the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone, in the presence of the holy Angels and the presence of the Lamb:

!!!>>>11 And the smoke of *their* [whose torment...? any man who worshipped the beast and his image, and received his mark in his forehead, or in his hand], torment ascendeth up forever and ever. And *they* [who...? any man who worshipped the beast and his image, and received his mark in his forehead, or in his hand], have no rest day or night, *who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. No where does Scripture say ALL who die not knowing the Lord will burn eternally...NO WHERE does it say All will. NO WHERE. <<<!!!

...but it does say the beast, his angels, the false prophet, and all those who have the mark of the beast and worshipped him will be tormented forever and ever...

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them, was cast into the Lake of Fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet ARE, and shall be tormented day and night, for ever and ever.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life, was cast into the lake of fire...[this being the "second death"]...

Rev 20:14 "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

...so, as I mentioned earlier, yes, all will be thrown into the lake of fire...yes...but no where does it say that ALL who died not knowing the Lord will remain there tormented by fire for all eternity! It just does not say that. You are teaching what you have been taught all your life....a lie...the "immortality of the soul" lie came from heathen Greek philosophy (Plato etc) and crept into the church through people like Augustine...not God!!! and was taught all through every Seminary ever built since then!...on to all of our preachers and pastors and priests!!!...right to your very ears!!!...into your hearts!!!...and there it remains TO-DAY! ...to put fear into the hearts of man...for their "business' bottom line"...for to fill their coffers! Know this...Repent of your sins and STOP! sinning BEFORE you die OR! you will PERISH! <<< as in die...as in soul dead...forever separated from God! It is your choice!...and NOW! is the time!!...for FAITH IS NOW!!! NOW FAITH IS!!! AMEN!



God Bless you!!!!!!!!!


In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth!!!
Verna!!!

Last edited by Verna Perry; 01-10-2011 at 08:11 PM..

 
Old 01-10-2011, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,904,632 times
Reputation: 624
It is just so beautiful I am speachless Repent or Perish.... I take up my cross daily.... I repent even while I sin....there is a thorn in my side but His grace will abound

You should be ashamed of yourself, you make me want to cry but I still cant. I am overwelmed by the spirit.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 08:15 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,241,048 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
It is just so beautiful I am speachless Repent or Perish.... I take up my cross daily.... I repent even while I sin....there is a thorn in my side but His grace will abound

You should be ashamed of yourself, you make me want to cry but I still cant. I am overwelmed by the spirit.
Hi Robin......talk to me...please expound further on what is on your heart...I want to understand. I love you...
 
Old 01-10-2011, 09:51 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,236 times
Reputation: 179
heres the problem i have with annihalation-----i see no purpose in it,man comes here to suffer,like alot do,then face annihalation,sp god has created a system of life for man to suffer then just be destroyed like some old peice of trash getting thrown into a fire.

but yes it would definitly be better than eternal torment,but i think that god has an even better plan than both annihalating His creation and torturing it,,,

i mean why not let them learn through life let them enjoy and suffer(according to their actions) on the temporary platform till they realise that this is not actual happiness,that it is only Pure Love of god that truly reaches to the depts of our souls,that it is there already, lying dormant, waiting to be realised and when we do come to this spiritual realisation,our true selves are also realised,that we are not made of matter,which is temporary but we are made of spirit,which is eternal then we are living in a pure state of transcendental bliss and knowledge,and free from the reactions of karma and the bondage of material nature,but realising the soul is not enough,one must give up the desire for material enjoyment and instead of serving the senses serve that which is the center of everything,the cause of all causes ,the supreme Lord,who is unlimited in every way,the embodiement of truth ,joy and consioussness,He has innumerable forms and names.....of course He has He's unlimited,you cant put a limit onto God,you cant limit Him to one space in time,he is above and beyond this material nature,and at the same time exists inside the hearts of every living entity.

and since we originate from Him,our souls anyway,some day all will return,because in this original state we are the same as God,not in quantity but in quality,He is Love and so are we,and he ants us back,but its up to us how long it ill take,,,for some it can be done in one lifetime or it could take eons and eons and eons,all up to the individuals progress through spiritual realisation.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 09:56 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
Reputation: 682
If you repent while you sin - you haven't really repented. Just an observation.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 09:57 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,236 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
It is just so beautiful I am speachless Repent or Perish.... I take up my cross daily.... I repent even while I sin....there is a thorn in my side but His grace will abound

You should be ashamed of yourself, you make me want to cry but I still cant. I am overwelmed by the spirit.

why not stop sinning instead of using Jesus as a skapegoat for your sin.???

on the other hand its easier to ask for forgiveness before you sin'''forgive me father for im about to sin''
 
Old 01-10-2011, 09:58 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,411,663 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
heres the problem i have with annihalation-----i see no purpose in it,man comes here to suffer,like alot do,then face annihalation,sp god has created a system of life for man to suffer then just be destroyed like some old peice of trash getting thrown into a fire.

but yes it would definitly be better than eternal torment,but i think that god has an even better plan than both annihalating His creation and torturing it,,,

i mean why not let them learn through life let them enjoy and suffer(according to their actions) on the temporary platform till they realise that this is not actual happiness,that it is only Pure Love of god that truly reaches to the depts of our souls,that it is there already, lying dormant, waiting to be realised and when we do come to this spiritual realisation,our true selves are also realised,that we are not made of matter,which is temporary but we are made of spirit,which is eternal then we are living in a pure state of transcendental bliss and knowledge,and free from the reactions of karma and the bondage of material nature,but realising the soul is not enough,one must give up the desire for material enjoyment and instead of serving the senses serve that which is the center of everything,the cause of all causes ,the supreme Lord,who is unlimited in every way,the embodiement of truth ,joy and consioussness,He has innumerable forms and names.....of course He has He's unlimited,you cant put a limit onto God,you cant limit Him to one space in time,he is above and beyond this material nature,and at the same time exists inside the hearts of every living entity.

and since we originate from Him,our souls anyway,some day all will return,because in this original state we are the same as God,not in quantity but in quality,He is Love and so are we,and he ants us back,but its up to us how long it ill take,,,for some it can be done in one lifetime or it could take eons and eons and eons,all up to the individuals progress through spiritual realisation.
There is an annihilation of sorts that is talked about in the bible. It is the annihilation of wickedness, out of each one of us.

"I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend - my enemy is no more."

In the same way, the wicked are destroyed when their wickedness is destroyed - the wicked are no more, they have been converted to be righteous.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 10:05 PM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,589,424 times
Reputation: 4161
Just from my perspective:

To me, annihilation, at least, is one step out of darkness... take one more additional step though and come into the full brilliant light which gives God FULL glory. Not partial glory.

ET = NO glory, ZERO honor. and in fact, MUCH DISHONOR to be attributed to the Creator. Lots of glory to man for making the right choice.

Annihilation = Partial Glory to God. Failure. Lots of glory to MAN for making the right choice.

Universal Reconciliation = FULL glory to God. God's perfect plan for mankind. Look what GOD has done. Not what WE have done. ALL glory to GOD. No wonder every knee will bow and every tongue will swear allegiance. No wonder! What HIS love has accomplished for us.

Annihilation and ET have something in common. They both put man on a pedestal where he doesn't belong. It says that mankind has more power than he really has. We are the clay, He is the potter. As in Adam, ALL die. So in Christ, all shall live.


Annihilation, if you really look at it, isn't as merciful or humble as you might think. There is a self-serving aspect that is on the wide road to destruction.. "Look... what *I* have done..."

no. Look what God has done.
For us ALL.


Just thinking aloud..
peace,
sparrow
 
Old 01-10-2011, 10:12 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,933,236 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
There is an annihilation of sorts that is talked about in the bible. It is the annihilation of wickedness, out of each one of us.

"I destroy my enemy when I make him my friend - my enemy is no more."

In the same way, the wicked are destroyed when their wickedness is destroyed - the wicked are no more, they have been converted to be righteous.
yeah i like that legoman,,,,,,,,,,,,,just imagine(and i dont think this is in the bible but however)everyone is potentially a freind and at some stage in the spiritual eternal universe we were all freinds/brothers and sisters.it is only through ignorance and the forgetfullness of our true spirits that we have become spiritually polluted,and have forgotten our constitutional position as eternal beings filled with joy/bliss and knowledege.

its like being in a sleep and we are dreaming,but if someone hits you a slap while they are sleeping,you dont hold it against them,you realise that each and every person,doing either good or bad are actually spirits originating from god,that are just lost,so yes the wickedness can be destroyed and turned to rightousness,because wickedness comes from ignorance and rightousness comes from truth.
 
Old 01-10-2011, 10:13 PM
 
5,739 posts, read 4,589,424 times
Reputation: 4161
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
there is an annihilation of sorts that is talked about in the bible. It is the annihilation of wickedness, out of each one of us.

"i destroy my enemy when i make him my friend - my enemy is no more."

in the same way, the wicked are destroyed when their wickedness is destroyed - the wicked are no more, they have been converted to be righteous.

yes!!!!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top