U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:45 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,409,710 times
Reputation: 682

Advertisements

Just following on that thought Pneuma - I see your point - a parable is used to illustrate a truth - that I agree with. However understanding it is not easy until we have some sort of "key" to "break the code".

We have the benefit that we have the whole bible - can read all of Jesus' parables, even the ones that were explained, plus we have all of the other teachings outlined for us.

Those masses in Jesus day did not have the gospels written out as we do - they did not have the new testament. We have the advantage of time & study to try to discern the truth contained within the parables, something that was simply not available to the masses at that time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,632,775 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Hi Pneuma, hope you are well.

We disagree here because the way I read that scripture is that Jesus spoke in parables so that they would not perceive or understand. ie. it was NOT CLEAR.

Even His own disciples didn't understand until He explained it plain language - explaining the symbols. So it was NOT clear until Jesus clarified it in non-parable form.

Just how I see it.
Legoman i s correct. The parables were spoken to hide. The revealing was when Jesus explained the parables to them. Those that only heard the parable didn't receive the revelation. Only those that Jesus then explained the parable to received the revelation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 3,998,284 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Hi Pneuma, hope you are well.

We disagree here because the way I read that scripture is that Jesus spoke in parables so that they would not perceive or understand. ie. it was NOT CLEAR.

Even His own disciples didn't understand until He explained it plain language - explaining the symbols. So it was NOT clear until Jesus clarified it in non-parable form.

Just how I see it.
That is the point Lego, Jesus spoke in parables to ALL, not just the Scribes and Pharasees. But the Scribes and Pharasees refused Jesus and His words so did not ASK Him the MEANING of the parable.

The desciples were just as blind to the MEANING of the parable as the Scribes and Pharasees but they ASKED Jesus the MEANING of the parable and once Jesus revealed the MEANING they UNDERSTOOD the parables.

A parable is used to make things CLEAR, but requires a translator.

Quote:
So it was NOT clear until Jesus clarified it in non-parable form.
If Jesus had not spoken first in parable no one would have understood what He said. It was the parable that made His desciples understand the MEANING, thus a parable is used to make things CLEAR, not unclear, to give understanding, not misunderstanding.

Thus Jesus clearification in non-parable form would NOT have been understood without the parable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 3,998,284 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Legoman i s correct. The parables were spoken to hide. The revealing was when Jesus explained the parables to them. Those that only heard the parable didn't receive the revelation. Only those that Jesus then explained the parable to received the revelation.
And who was it that Jesus explained the parable to? those who ASKED

Did the Scribes and Pharasees ever ASK Jesus to explian to them the parables? NO

It is the same thing with the Bible, unless we ASK for clearification on what it says so PLAINLY we are no different then the scribes and Pharasees.

Can you understand the scriptures without an interpreter?

Do not the scriptures make things CLEAR?

Off course they do, but we need an interpreter to UNDERSTAND the CLEAR meaning of what is so PLAINY said.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 3,998,284 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Hi Pneuma, hope you are well.
Hi Lego, I am doing fine, just stopped in to read a little and add my two cents.

Hope all is well with you also

God bless
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,632,775 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
And who was it that Jesus explained the parable to? those who ASKED

Did the Scribes and Pharasees ever ASK Jesus to explian to them the parables? NO

It is the same thing with the Bible, unless we ASK for clearification on what it says so PLAINLY we are no different then the scribes and Pharasees.

Can you understand the scriptures without an interpreter?

Do not the scriptures make things CLEAR?

Off course they do, but we need an interpreter to UNDERSTAND the CLEAR meaning of what is so PLAINY said.
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Canada
6,643 posts, read 3,998,284 times
Reputation: 386
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
And why was it NOT given?

It was because they rejected Him and refused to ASK.

Why was it given to the desciples?

Because they ASKED.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:13 AM
 
351 posts, read 283,340 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Come on, let not this thread turn into a, UR, ET argument !!!

Can't there be ONE thread in this forum that people could have a conversation with each other with out having this constant battle of who is more spiritual and provoking individuals to the point of defending their belief ???
Hi Cyber Munchkin I'm not trying to turn this into a ET v UR argument. I was expressing my believe that Jesus spoke in parables because not only his enemies but the ones he preached to and healed were not given to understanding--- at this time.

I believe the parables all have one meaning. They are all one just differant perspectives of the same theme. Most can not understand because God has not opened their eyes. God is creating man in his own image. That are what the parables are about. That is the good news of the gosspels
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:17 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,046,369 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I think there is a missunderstanding of what a parable is used for. It is not to hid the truth but to reveal the truth. How many times did the Scribes and Pharasees percieve what Jesus said in parables to be concerning themselves? They knew Jesus was talking about them in those parables, but their hard hearts would not listen to the truth thus they did not precieve nor understand. And the reason they did not precieve and understand was because they rejected Jesus and His teachings, if they had of done as His desciples did and ask Jesus to explian the parables they too would have seen and understood.

A parables is used to make a point CLEAR not unclear; However, a parable need one to teller to tell them what the POINT is. The scribes and Pharasees refused to go to Jesus to understand the point.

This is easily seen in that Jesus spoke in parables to ALL (and without a parable He opened not His mouth), but only to those who followed Him did He give an understanding. WHY? Because they sought Him out and ASKED Him.

Thus the parables made Jesus' point CLEAR.

Thus the Scibes and Pharasees seen and heard but did not precieve and understand because they refused Jesus and His words.
I totally agree with what you are saying here....
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-12-2011, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,917,431 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
I think there is a missunderstanding of what a parable is used for. It is not to hid the truth but to reveal the truth. How many times did the Scribes and Pharasees percieve what Jesus said in parables to be concerning themselves? They knew Jesus was talking about them in those parables, but their hard hearts would not listen to the truth thus they did not precieve nor understand. And the reason they did not precieve and understand was because they rejected Jesus and His teachings, if they had of done as His desciples did and ask Jesus to explian the parables they too would have seen and understood.

A parables is used to make a point CLEAR not unclear; However, a parable need one to teller to tell them what the POINT is. The scribes and Pharasees refused to go to Jesus to understand the point.

This is easily seen in that Jesus spoke in parables to ALL (and without a parable He opened not His mouth), but only to those who followed Him did He give an understanding. WHY? Because they sought Him out and ASKED Him.

Thus the parables made Jesus' point CLEAR.

Thus the Scibes and Pharasees seen and heard but did not precieve and understand because they refused Jesus and His words.
Yes, the enemies of Jesus had no interest in understanding them, so they didn't understand. Everyone who wants to understand them, will understand them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top