U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-12-2011, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,235 posts, read 9,990,552 times
Reputation: 15072

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Mark 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables
12 so that,“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’"

Can anyone explain this to me from the eternal torment point of view?

Why would Jesus purposely tell parables so the masses would not understand and would not be forgiven?

Let us put 1+1 together and make 2. If one is not forgiven, ultimately they will end in eternal torment. And Jesus told the masses only parables so they would not understand and so they would not turn and be forgiven. Therefore it seems Jesus is purposely telling them parables so they are more likely to end up in an eternal hell... This doesn't seem to fit the behavior of the Savior of the World.

I'm trying to understand this... thanks if anyone can explain why Jesus would not simply speak clearly so that the masses would turn and be forgiven.
What do you suppose prevented the 'others' from understanding the parables. If simple, ordinary people could grasp what Jesus was saying, why couldn't the highly religious, Pharisees get it?

The answer, of course, is found in a similar teaching of Jesus, "Unless they come as little children, they will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven." In both, He was saying, "Anyone who comes to me 'seeking' and 'knocking' ... with an honest, open, trusting mind ... will find an open door to God" --- But, anyone who arrogantly 'storms the gates of heaven,' pridefully demanding entrance by whatever means they choose, ... will find the door closed."

The same answer applies to those who view John 14:6 "No man comes to the Father, except by me" ... as excluding other religions. God deals in Grace and Faith and has provided The Way (Jesus Christ) for ALL to have Salvation and Eternal Life. Again, as with the Pharisees, many have 'chosen' their own way ... and are instead demanding that God accept whatever 'way' people might choose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-12-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,107,186 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Mark 4:11 He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables
12 so that,“‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’"

Can anyone explain this to me from the eternal torment point of view?

Why would Jesus purposely tell parables so the masses would not understand and would not be forgiven?

Let us put 1+1 together and make 2. If one is not forgiven, ultimately they will end in eternal torment. And Jesus told the masses only parables so they would not understand and so they would not turn and be forgiven. Therefore it seems Jesus is purposely telling them parables so they are more likely to end up in an eternal hell... This doesn't seem to fit the behavior of the Savior of the World.

I'm trying to understand this... thanks if anyone can explain why Jesus would not simply speak clearly so that the masses would turn and be forgiven.
Because God hasn't lost one single soul! As you correctly observe in your OP, it would be ridiculous for Jesus to speak in parables if man was required to "make a decision about his eternal destiny" based on those words! It would seem a cruel trick.

But God does not play games or tricks. And in His Wisdom, He has designed a plan for all mankind, and His Son was 100 percent successful in getting back all that was lost in the garden of Eden. God knows how to save His creatures, and He is working mightily and will continue to work until all finally believe in Him, Jew and Gentile alike. And this will happen when God's own faith is given to each creature, one by one.

May the mercy of God be with us all, always!!

Blessings,
Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-13-2011, 02:57 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,107,186 times
Reputation: 866
Default Hope this hasn't been said already..!

A scripture came to mind this morning:
"All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." (Matt. 13.34-35)

Hell may also be a parable, since all Jesus spoke was a parable (with the exception of a few places, where Jesus spoke plainly to the disciples).

UR gives God ALL of the glory, because He does all things according to His purposes.

ET keeps some of the glory for themselves....

Blessings,
brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-16-2011, 03:41 PM
 
1 posts, read 2,688 times
Reputation: 10
Legoman, I think you're onto something, I think it has a lot to do with predestination. Why did God make the Bible so hard to understand and why did Jesus speak in parables? I think there are a few reasons:

1) He did this to evade those people who aren't truly interested in knowing God. Some people aren't really interested in Jesus's teaching at all, just as some people don't really wan't to know the Gospel. Some people just read scripture for the sake of arguing about it with others...but how can someone present a good argument against something that they cannot understand? They can't, which is why God does not allow them a complete understanding of His word.

2) It is also a matter of predestination. Mark 4:11 says that some are permitted to understand the secret (or mystery) of the Kingdom of God. This implies that there are some who simply are not permitted to know God and thus our belief and trust in Christ becomes a "privilege" (as is said in Philippians 1:29).

Legoman, predestination is a very difficult thing to understand and there have been many theologians throughout history who have argued over this topic. I don't claim to know anything more than what God has thought fit to teach me, but I think that the message of predestination is preached throughout the Bible. Ephesians 1:5 says that "God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure." He chose us because it pleased him and also, as it says in Ephesians 1:14, "He did this so we would praise and glorify him" and in Romans 9:23 "he does this to make the riches of his glory shine even brighter on those to whom he shows mercy, who were prepared in advance for glory. I would implore you to research the topic of predestination (if you haven't already), and I pray that, no matter what you find, God will open your heart and eyes and ears to receive his teaching I love you, brother. I hope God blesses you with his wisdom. God bless.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2011, 02:14 AM
 
34,420 posts, read 8,865,664 times
Reputation: 4782
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I can't resist this game of Go.

places a piece.

But, if he didn't ever explain clearly, how did he know they wouldn't accept it if he had?
I'd love to know who just gave me a rep for this.

Look folks. This arguing about why Jesus did this or didn't do that is futile.

The demonstrable fact is - if you are willing to put the time and effort in to look - that almost nothing in the Gospels is true. The majority of the parables were written by Luke - none of the others mention even the most memorable of them.

The ones on which the Synoptics agree are not hinted at in John. In John we get a lot of long sermons which the synoptics don't hint at. It won't do to say John wrote from a different point of view. He was writing a different story. Let those with ears to hear, eyes to see and brains to think, do so.

That's all, folks. Just I'd like to know who was reading my old post. I might have a rep for them (Bribe )
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-17-2011, 07:31 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 22,232,709 times
Reputation: 6657
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I'd love to know who just gave me a rep for this.

Look folks. This arguing about why Jesus did this or didn't do that is futile.

The demonstrable fact is - if you are willing to put the time and effort in to look - that almost nothing in the Gospels is true.
Your theories aren't facts, they're your theories. They are logical and sensible, but that doesn't make them facts. I don't know who gave you a rep, but your question was a sensible one regardless.

Although it doesn't precisely fit the quote I think I tended to feel Jesus spoke in parables because he speaks of different kind of believers with some being "rocky ground" and so forth. If he spoke plainly some would kind of get it, but it wouldn't take root with them. Things have more meaning if they require more thought, but that might not be the best way to put what I mean.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top