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Old 01-13-2011, 09:12 AM
 
964 posts, read 718,113 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Finn_Jarber, there is not a "whatever". Things are being carefully considered and reasonably researched to find the Truth. It is the anti-universal position that hasn't considered or researched as thoroughly the SURE Word of God. Remember most universalists had at one time embraced Eternal Torment and Annihilationism. Those things are now left behind for them. They have been persuaded by better evidence of God's Power and Nature. So we know that anyone that holds the belief of annhilationism or Eternal Torment can leave them behind also and embrace a better understanding of God's Word and become closer to the Lord. But how will they be persuaded? Shall they leave the comfort of their congregations of error? Will they disaasociate themselves with the doctrines of hate and fear? If God persuades them, they WILL.

Fairness is to accomplish in us what God purposed for us for each and everyone one of us which is to become His Children exhibiting His Divine nature.
Finn, Sc, the rest of you ET'ers...look what trettep wrote above. Do you really think we just abandoned our faith because eternal torment makes us feel uneasy or bothers us??? I labored over this issue for DECADES. Yes decades. God has given me peace about this (UR) and brought me along baby step by baby step because at first, I couldn't accept UR either but the evidence in scripture for UR is OVERWHELMING and you refuse to believe it.

You know, it really is quite simple but not to those who have hardened their hearts. This simple message is that God is able to destroy the sin yet save the sinner.

How can heaven be an eternal joyous celebration when the vast majority are screaming out in flames and in torment and never make it?

Your God is pretty small if this is His end result.

 
Old 01-13-2011, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,577 posts, read 31,974,824 times
Reputation: 9422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
That explains why a hell believer started this thread about hell
See, that's what I mean. The thread is not about hell, but you think it is, because your mind revolves around hell.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 09:42 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,415,429 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
In a lot of cases (maybe all?) death is a merciful act.

His ways are higher than our ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Tell that to the parents of the 9 yr old who was killed in Arizona.

I believe everything has a purpose, but I wouldn't call every death a merciful act. It is a clumsy way to put it.

Yes, indeed, His ways are higher than our ways, which is exactly why people need to stop trying to apply their human sense of justice to God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber Munchkin View Post
Amen, Finn_Jarber, it really makes you wonder who you are posting too doesn't it ? I mean for one to say all deaths are a merciful act of God....
We truly have no idea what people have done in their own lives and are hiding behind a computer screen.....
You and Finn both missed the point of what I was saying.

I'm not saying many people don't die horrible deaths - I'm not saying that there was mercy in that horrible act that was committed against that 9yr old.

But in the state of death there is resting and peace. It is why we say rest in peace.
Many people have the belief (AFAIK both of you do as well) that a child who dies before the age of accountability goes directly into the presence of God.

So try to look at this objectively.

Instead of this 9 year old living on this planet for another 80 years or so - experiencing pain and sorrow, possibly experiencing war, hate, murder, non-love - a painful existence... instead of all that:

This 9 year old is now living in glorious joy with God Himself! He has been spared the misery of this world and is now in heaven. What could be more merciful than that?



I don't understand why you wouldn't see that.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,577 posts, read 31,974,824 times
Reputation: 9422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post
Finn, Sc, the rest of you ET'ers...look what trettep wrote above. Do you really think we just abandoned our faith because eternal torment makes us feel uneasy or bothers us??? I labored over this issue for DECADES. Yes decades. God has given me peace about this (UR) and brought me along baby step by baby step because at first, I couldn't accept UR either but the evidence in scripture for UR is OVERWHELMING and you refuse to believe it.
I see such chest thumping and self promotion all the time. URs are always happy to announce that they have studied the Bible, while others have not. I am sorry to hear that you had no peace before you became a UR. God gives peace when you truly surrender your life to Him. Peace is a fruit of God's presence in your life, and the absence of peace could be an indicator that maybe there was something missing in your relationship with the Lord, but I guess that is exactly what you are saying. That is not the case with me, since God has already given me peace, and I am not driven to search of alternative faiths. If there is overwhelming proof of UR, then no one has shown it to me. All I have seen it out of context quatations and weak arguments based on human feelings.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 09:43 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,294 posts, read 20,031,205 times
Reputation: 2110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
See, that's what I mean. The thread is not about hell, but you think it is, because your mind revolves around hell.
Of cause it's about hell, scgraham is suggesting universalist do not believe in hell because of emotions, truth is most ET'ers believe in it through eternal emotions.

Last edited by pcamps; 01-13-2011 at 09:57 AM..
 
Old 01-13-2011, 09:45 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,691,394 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I see such chest thumping and self promotion all the time. URs are always happy to announce that they have studied the Bible, while others have not. I am sorry to hear that you had no peace before you became a UR. God gives peace when you truly surrender your life to Him. Peace is a fruit of God's presence in your life, and the absence of peace could be an indicator that maybe there was something missing in your relationship with the Lord, but I guess that is exactly what you are saying. That is not the case with me, since God has already given me peace, and I am not driven to search of alternative faiths. If there is overwhelming proof of UR, then no one has shown it to me. All I have seen it out of context quatations and weak arguments based on human feelings.

Pot and kettle antics.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 09:49 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,415,429 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Of cause it's about hell, scgraham is suggesting universalist do not brlieve in hell because of emotions, truth is most ET'ers believe in it through eternal emotions.
Indeed - of course its always about hell. Hell is the giant elephant in the room that Finn (and many others) don't want to talk about.

Excuse me while I squeeze by this elephant. Pay no attention to it. Its not important. God loves you!

(but if you don't do the right thing in this life, believe the "right thing", follow the right doctrines - you are going to burn forever - unceasing pain, forever and ever. Nevermind that no one can agree what the "right thing" is - but don't worry about that - its not really that important).

God loves you! Pay no attention to the elephant...

 
Old 01-13-2011, 10:00 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,691,394 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
See, that's what I mean. The thread is not about hell, but you think it is, because your mind revolves around hell.
All your showing is that you don't pay very good attention.


From the thread starter's (who is not a universalist, or did you miss that) own words


Quote:
Those who subscribe to this doctrine do not "feel" the fairness of eternal torment

Quote:
I read of one UR believer who had a nervous breakdown for about 12 years over the truth about hell

Quote:
Emotions declare, "Hell is evil". Faith declares, "it's the Word of God".
 
Old 01-13-2011, 10:01 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,052,650 times
Reputation: 17783
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
You and Finn both missed the point of what I was saying.

I'm not saying many people don't die horrible deaths - I'm not saying that there was mercy in that horrible act that was committed against that 9yr old.

But in the state of death there is resting and peace. It is why we say rest in peace.
Many people have the belief (AFAIK both of you do as well) that a child who dies before the age of accountability goes directly into the presence of God.

So try to look at this objectively.

Instead of this 9 year old living on this planet for another 80 years or so - experiencing pain and sorrow, possibly experiencing war, hate, murder, non-love - a painful existence... instead of all that:

This 9 year old is now living in glorious joy with God Himself! He has been spared the misery of this world and is now in heaven. What could be more merciful than that?


I don't understand why you wouldn't see that.
I am sorry legoman you are starting to sound like that woman who went crazy and killed all her children.
There is no objective way to look at such evil thoughts..... you're trying to justify.
Who is to say that little girl if not for her life taken so young and tragically would have had a wonderful life serving God in many, many wonderful ways.....
Sorry, but I don't see your logic and reasoning....
 
Old 01-13-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,577 posts, read 31,974,824 times
Reputation: 9422
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Indeed - of course its always about hell.
To URs everything is always about hell. That's why I said it is an obsession. The thread is about UR running on feeling as opposed to faith.
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