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Old 01-12-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Finn_Jarber, there is not a "whatever". Things are being carefully considered and reasonably researched to find the Truth. It is the anti-universal position that hasn't considered or researched as thoroughly the SURE Word of God. Remember most universalists had at one time embraced Eternal Torment and Annihilationism. Those things are now left behind for them. They have been persuaded by better evidence of God's Power and Nature. So we know that anyone that holds the belief of annhilationism or Eternal Torment can leave them behind also and embrace a better understanding of God's Word and become closer to the Lord. But how will they be persuaded? Shall they leave the comfort of their congregations of error? Will they disaasociate themselves with the doctrines of hate and fear? If God persuades them, they WILL.

Fairness is to accomplish in us what God purposed for us for each and everyone one of us which is to become His Children exhibiting His Divine nature.
Eternal torment has nothing to do with it. URs are obsessed with hell (yes, still), and that is the reason they converted to another belief system.

 
Old 01-12-2011, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
3,381 posts, read 3,379,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why? So, we can apply it to out own lives. However, God is not human, and his ways are not our ways, so when you try to apply human logic to figure out God, you are doomed to fail.
His ways are so much higher than ours!
 
Old 01-12-2011, 05:11 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,170 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why? So, we can apply it to out own lives. However, God is not human, and his ways are not our ways, so when you try to apply human logic to figure out God, you are doomed to fail.
His ways are not the way of the carnal mind . Yet just a quick study of the life of Jesus and you will be left in no doubt about the ways of God . Jesus is God's way , He said "I am the way". This verse has been butchered to death by evangelical christians. "I am the way", when you see someone blessing those who curse them, you are seeing The Way, when you see someone loving their enemies, you are seeing The Way, When you see someone doing good to those who spitefully use them,you are seeing The Way,do you get my drift Finn ?.

Whoever believes or implies that we do not understand God's ways because we cannot get our head around him throwing those who don't believe in him in to eternal torment,needs their head looking at.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 05:43 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,810,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Universal Reconciliation is based on emotions, not faith. Those who subscribe to this doctrine do not "feel" the fairness of eternal torment for those who die in their sins, so they choose to believe in another way based on their emotions -- and that's not faith. All it takes is a few statements from those who hold to Universal Reconciliation to realize the motive behind their doctrine.

So, how do they do it? By cherry-picking. They take from scripture what they like, and then proceed to say that other parts of the scriptures have been mistranslated. How convenient. While they can't deny the existence of a God, unlike atheists, they are still unbelievers; they do not hold to the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
UR is not loving ... it's accusatory.

Jesus specifically declares what God's will is:
John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, ...”

God specifically declares that he will save those who believe, not save all, and this is to his wisdom and pleasure:
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God ... God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

Jesus specifically declares that not all will be in heaven:
whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life" John 5:24
"the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." John 12:48


Jesus specifically declares that those whom are judged are done justly:
John 5:30
By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Jesus justly says:
Matthew 25:34-41
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world....
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.' "

 
Old 01-12-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,112,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why? So, we can apply it to our earthly lives. However, God is not human, and his ways are not our ways, so when you try to apply human logic to figure out God, you are doomed to fail.
Still doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, purple is purple. I cannot see it as anything other than purple.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 05:58 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
His ways are not the way of the carnal mind . Yet just a quick study of the life of Jesus and you will be left in no doubt about the ways of God . Jesus is God's way , He said "I am the way". This verse has been butchered to death by evangelical christians. "I am the way", when you see someone blessing those who curse them, you are seeing The Way, when you see someone loving their enemies, you are seeing The Way, When you see someone doing good to those who spitefully use them,you are seeing The Way,do you get my drift Finn ?.
That's all very interesting, but doesn't have anything to do with topic
 
Old 01-12-2011, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
Still doesn't make sense to me. Like I said, purple is purple. I cannot see it as anything other than purple.
Purple is purple to us, but God's way's are not purple.

Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD
.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,112,421 times
Reputation: 22092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Purple is purple to us, but God's way's are not purple.

Let the wicked forsake their ways
and the unrighteous their thoughts.
Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,”
declares the LORD.
9 “As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.
I understand that this makes sense to you and that is why you believe what you believe. However, it doesn't make sense to me and that is why I believe what I believe. I know you believe that only yours is the truth - but I can only see my beliefs as the truth for me. To me, it is okay that we agree to disagree. I try to understand - but I cannot believe things that simply do not make sense to me. I use my heart and my head to guide me.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 06:22 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,170 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's all very interesting, but doesn't have anything to do with topic
But it does Finn, because you said this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Why? So, we can apply it to our earthly lives. However, God is not human, and his ways are not our ways, so when you try to apply human logic to figure out God, you are doomed to fail.
And this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
That's the thing. They believe whatever "seems" right. They trust their feelings, logic and human sense of justice as opposed to trusting the word of God.

What you just said is a common UR argument: It can't be true because it's not FAIR. The problem is that you define FAIR using your human emotions and understanding of justice.
So you want us to believe that Hitler destroying millions is unfair, but God destroying billions is fair.. You really are not being fair to yourself thinking this way.
 
Old 01-12-2011, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
Reputation: 9408
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
So you want us to believe that Hitler destroying millions is unfair, but God destroying billions is fair. You really are not being fair to yourself thinking this way.
You are the only one talking about Hitler, so don't say I am trying to suggest something I never suggested. But since you bring it up, I can tell you that Hitler killed many, but God killed all but eight on the entire planet. Also, since God punished the entire mankind with death, it is fair to say He has already killed billions. Fair? You do not seem to think so, but it is God's justice, which is why you can't understand it.
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