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Old 01-13-2011, 12:07 PM
 
5,408 posts, read 4,658,268 times
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The accusation coming from some of those who subscribe to Universal Reconciliation is: A hell of eternal torment is based on emotions because people want vengeance; it originated from another thread: Universal Reconciliation is based on emotions, not faith. To that, I simply offer scripture:

Romans 12
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
[20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
[21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

The battle is the LORD's, for He will rightly judge those who die in their sins in due season. And, the judgement is a hell of eternal torment.

Luke 16
[19] There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[20] And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[21] And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[22] And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[23] And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[24] And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[25] But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[26] And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[27] Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[28] For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[29] Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[30] And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[31] And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Last edited by scgraham; 01-13-2011 at 12:38 PM..

 
Old 01-13-2011, 12:28 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
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The premise behind the accusation either way is false.

I know people personally that do not like the idea of God saving all mankind because they want justice for those who have harmed them and for those who they believe deserve it.

The emotional reasoning here does not define that it is not true, it only defines perhaps that the reasoning someone uses may not uncover truth, but someones emotional path can cause them to believe something that can be true.

Your reasoning from the other thread is that UR's believe what they do based upon emotion and not faith, the problem is that does not disprove UR.

Further more, I personally have never said that my disagreement with you or anyone else was about what was fair, so that argument to me, as a believer that through Jesus Christ God will save all mankind is a moot point and has no bearing upon whether what I believe is true or not.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 12:32 PM
 
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God's jugdement is fairer than King Solomon's...everyone will get their just measurement.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 12:40 PM
 
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scgraham do you believe that a belief in eternal torment is necessary for salvation?
 
Old 01-13-2011, 01:04 PM
 
5,408 posts, read 4,658,268 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
scgraham do you believe that a belief in eternal torment is necessary for salvation?
Yes; one can't deny Jesus' truth and expect to spend eternity with Him. If one is disgusted in His truth now, how could such a one get along in heaven?
 
Old 01-13-2011, 01:09 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Yes; one can't deny Jesus' truth and expect to spend eternity with Him. If one is disgusted in His truth now, how could such a one get along in heaven?

So my acceptance of Jesus as Saviour is meaningless?
 
Old 01-13-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,746,380 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Yes; one can't deny Jesus' truth and expect to spend eternity with Him. If one is disgusted in His truth now, how could such a one get along in heaven?
How is believing in hell Jesus' truth? Man, SCGraham you really need to do some studying. If one is disgusted in Jesus' truth now, they will be brought to understanding later. It's just that simple.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: East Coast
30,170 posts, read 19,964,744 times
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scgraham you quoted this verse,on what basis do you believe it's talking about eternal torment ?

Romans 12
[19] Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord

Do you not understand that God is not mocked.if a man sow's to the flesh he will reap destruction ?,you see vengeance is just a law of reaping what you have sown. God is not mad at the world and desiring vengeance upon it,there is no need for him to do it, there's a law that does it for him, it's set in place for the benefit of man and punishment and correction of man.

Moderator cut: off topic

Last edited by Miss Blue; 01-13-2011 at 01:38 PM..
 
Old 01-13-2011, 01:36 PM
 
1,838 posts, read 1,931,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
gentiles are supposedly part animal...low lifes (please referr to the Talmud. i cannot quote the passages because they are very strong and may offend) that deserve absolutely no respect. well i'am rh+ so i'am definitely gentile but i had nothing to do with choosing this vehicle i'am in (body and the blood that runs through it) but i'am good person and i tell you that i do have a spirit and soul.
look pal,your a human being and no animal,but of course you know that already,the difference between us and the animals is that we can use our inteligence and inquire about God,thus we can progress spiritualy,thats the real difference,everything else is just sense pleasure,eatin,sleepin,mating etc.,,,,,,,,,,,

sometiomes probly even most of the time it is for the benefit of the individual to be put into an animals body,when the intricities and hardships of life become too unbarable they are put into simpler forms of life,you know yourself -some people cant handle the human form,then their are punishments,,its said that people who are attached to much to the material pleasures will also be put into a body befitting their desires,if all one wants to do with their human existence is eat,sleep,mate, defend which are all animal instincts then instead of spending a life as a human and having to put up with the human emotions,God will put them into a body hat they can do this as much as they like without any negative spiritual effects.

when we first entered the material platform of existence we came directly from the spiritual world and were pure in spirit,infact we didnt have gross material bodys but rather bodys made out of pure intelligence,a subtle body,born on the highest of the heavenly planets within the material universe,then due to our contact with material nature and our desires to enjoy such nature,we started to gradually fall down and accumulate karma.even the fact that we have human form now suggests that we've probly been through every species of life including single celled organisms just to get here,but once we get here to the human stage you'd have to be a right arsehole to loose your position,unfortunatly their are too many of these in the world.

the human form of life is considered to be the most precious,on the heavenly planetsd their is too much pleasure,on the hellish planets their is too much pain,but on the middle planetary system's the balance is just right for one to cultivate spiritual progress,these bodies are considered the gateways to eternal realm.even a life on the highest planet(brahmaloka)which a day is billions of earth years is considered to be not as good as the human form for entry to the spiritual realm,that is if you know how to gt there,it is a rare thing,how many times have we been here and missed our chance.

NO you dont have a soul,,,,YOU ARE A SOUL,we are not bodies that posses souls but rather souls that posses bodies,the soul is eternal and is not made of the same energy that matter is,it is a spiritual energy,an energy that comes from God,the same energy that God is -you are,in your original state that is,which is bliss and knowledge.God is the whole while we are parts,just like the ocean and the drop of water from the ocean,both are the same in quality but not quantity,God is unlimited He is whole of everything that exists while we are the parts,He is Love and so are we!!!!!

we are all eternal beings,spiritual entitys,the body is just a temporary manifestation in which we can live out our desires,but the real goal of life is to break free from the bondage of material existence and karma and return to HOME back to Godhead....if you want to know how this is done then i suggest reading the Bhagavad Gita,,the science of self realisation is a process,the self(soul)is where god exists.
 
Old 01-13-2011, 01:39 PM
 
2,937 posts, read 2,249,503 times
Reputation: 464
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
look pal,your a human being and no animal,but of course you know that already,the difference between us and the animals is that we can use our inteligence and inquire about God,thus we can progress spiritualy,thats the real difference,everything else is just sense pleasure,eatin,sleepin,mating etc.,,,,,,,,,,,

sometiomes probly even most of the time it is for the benefit of the individual to be put into an animals body,when the intricities and hardships of life become too unbarable they are put into simpler forms of life,you know yourself -some people cant handle the human form,then their are punishments,,its said that people who are attached to much to the material pleasures will also be put into a body befitting their desires,if all one wants to do with their human existence is eat,sleep,mate, defend which are all animal instincts then instead of spending a life as a human and having to put up with the human emotions,God will put them into a body hat they can do this as much as they like without any negative spiritual effects.

when we first entered the material platform of existence we came directly from the spiritual world and were pure in spirit,infact we didnt have gross material bodys but rather bodys made out of pure intelligence,a subtle body,born on the highest of the heavenly planets within the material universe,then due to our contact with material nature and our desires to enjoy such nature,we started to gradually fall down and accumulate karma.even the fact that we have human form now suggests that we've probly been through every species of life including single celled organisms just to get here,but once we get here to the human stage you'd have to be a right arsehole to loose your position,unfortunatly their are too many of these in the world.

the human form of life is considered to be the most precious,on the heavenly planetsd their is too much pleasure,on the hellish planets their is too much pain,but on the middle planetary system's the balance is just right for one to cultivate spiritual progress,these bodies are considered the gateways to eternal realm.even a life on the highest planet(brahmaloka)which a day is billions of earth years is considered to be not as good as the human form for entry to the spiritual realm,that is if you know how to gt there,it is a rare thing,how many times have we been here and missed our chance.

NO you dont have a soul,,,,YOU ARE A SOUL,we are not bodies that posses souls but rather souls that posses bodies,the soul is eternal and is not made of the same energy that matter is,it is a spiritual energy,an energy that comes from God,the same energy that God is -you are,in your original state that is,which is bliss and knowledge.God is the whole while we are parts,just like the ocean and the drop of water from the ocean,both are the same in quality but not quantity,God is unlimited He is whole of everything that exists while we are the parts,He is Love and so are we!!!!!

we are all eternal beings,spiritual entitys,the body is just a temporary manifestation in which we can live out our desires,but the real goal of life is to break free from the bondage of material existence and karma and return to HOME back to Godhead....if you want to know how this is done then i suggest reading the Bhagavad Gita,,the science of self realisation is a process,the self(soul)is where god exists.
thank you have a blessed day!
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