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Old 01-14-2011, 09:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Where are you getting "True Love" from? I don't recall it in the Bible.

What other source of True LOVE is there?


GOD is LOVE. That is in the Bible.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,228 posts, read 14,109,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
What other source of True LOVE is there?


GOD is LOVE. That is in the Bible.
God is light (1 John 1:5). Are you looking for "True Light" to be in your heart?

God is gracious and compassionate (2 Chron. 30:9)

God himself is judge (Ps. 50:6)

God is a bunch of things - but these are not "living" attributes.

It's not about a source (love, light, grace) - it's about personal beings, Father, Son, and Spirit.

You will find nothing about "True Love" possessing one's heart because it can't. Love is an attribute, not a person - and if it's not a person, it can't possess anything.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:21 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,684,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
God is light (1 John 1:5). Are you looking for "True Light" to be in your heart?

God is gracious and compassionate (2 Chron. 30:9)

God himself is judge (Ps. 50:6)

God is a bunch of things - but these are not "living" attributes.

It's not about a source (love, light, grace) - it's about personal beings, Father, Son, and Spirit.

You will find nothing about "True Love" possessing one's heart because it can't. Love is an attribute, not a person - and if it's not a person, it can't possess anything.

Love is what God is. I'm certain you do not have a person possessing you. Jesus is not in you in the flesh. You want me to produce some exact worded scripture and you will be unable to hold to your own standard so your expectations are moot.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,228 posts, read 14,109,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Love is what God is. I'm certain you do not have a person possessing you. Jesus is not in you in the flesh.
Let me quote this again:

Galatians 2:20 - "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

It is not a fleshly indwelling, but a spiritual indwelling - by the Holy Spirit.

Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Christ lives in me. It is His presence in me that provides eternal life.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
You want me to produce some exact worded scripture and you will be unable to hold to your own standard so your expectations are moot.
That's correct, I want you to produce Scripture - otherwise, it your opinion versus mine - which is useless.
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Old 01-14-2011, 10:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
Let me quote this again:

Galatians 2:20 - "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

It is not a fleshly indwelling, but a spiritual indwelling - by the Holy Spirit.

Through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, Christ lives in me. It is His presence in me that provides eternal life.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 - do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.



That's correct, I want you to produce Scripture - otherwise, it your opinion versus mine - which is useless.

You said a person posesses you, what scripture says a person posesses you. If Christ the person is in your heart, show the scripture that verifies it.


God is Love is in the Bible, and you know it is.


But I am glad we have established between us that I have no need to believe in eternal torment in order to be saved and that I do not have to explain my salvation the way you believe it in order to be either.

We see what the words of scripture mean in a different way. Christ according to the bible possesses my heart, that is all that matters.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,228 posts, read 14,109,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
You said a person posesses you, what scripture says a person posesses you. If Christ the person is in your heart, show the scripture that verifies it.
I quoted Galatians twice stating that Christ lived in Paul. So Christ does indeed dwell in people. But there is also this:

Romans 8:11 - But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

... which refers to anyone in whom the Spirit dwells.

I stated possession by Christ in general - not specifically in one's heart, because the Bible doesn't say that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
God is Love is in the Bible, and you know it is.
I know - but it is not correct to create an entire doctrine on this verse - or any single verse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
But I am glad we have established between us that I have no need to believe in eternal torment in order to be saved and that I do not have to explain my salvation the way you believe it in order to be either.

We see what the words of scripture mean in a different way. Christ according to the bible possesses my heart, that is all that matters.
You should be explaining salvation in biblical terms - not your own terms. Scripture does not say True Love posseses anyone's heart.

Everything is centered on torment for you - not Christ, and not the Holy Spirit.


Here are my cliff notes for salvation.

It is the presence of the Christ in you that saves you. You get Christ in you through receiving the Holy Spirit. You receive the Holy Spirit when there is true belief in Christ.

God in heaven, who knows the hearts of all people, knows when a person has truly believed the gospel of Christ - and when that occurs, the Holy Spirit is sent form heaven to dwell in that person - and by relation, Christ now also dwells in that person.

On earth, the gospel is preached - one hears the gospel and truly believes in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ - and Christ is received as described above.

That is the criteria for salvation with which you asked about. All in the Scriptures in various places.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I quoted Galatians twice stating that Christ lived in Paul. So Christ does indeed dwell in people. But there is also this:
I did not say Christ did not dwell in people, he does not dwell in people as a person. YOU stated something must be a person to possess someone by saying this

Quote:
if it's not a person, it can't possess anything.
You will fail to find any scripture saying that. But you expect me to produce scripture worded a certain way to support mine. I do not bother posting scripture for that reason, there is no satisfying someone with a double standard no matter how many scriptures are posted.



So we are back to square one. Does my true belief that Jesus is my Saviour save me or not?


I say it does.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:57 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,684,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
I

I know - but it is not correct to create an entire doctrine on this verse - or any single verse.


This thead is about a part of what an entire doctrine may consist of, so it is not correct to imply I have.
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Old 01-14-2011, 11:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
At the request of scgraham I am starting this thread to avoid derailing his.

Basically the claim is as a believer that through Jesus Christ I believe God will save all mankind, my belief in Jesus has not saved me.

I disagree, based upon Jesus being the only way.

What arguments, then, are valid enough to give evidence that I am damned to the eternal torment scgraham believes in based on the rejection of said eternal torment and NOT a rejection of Jesus as my Saviour?
As Abraham and poor Lazarus looked across the great gulf to see the rich man in the torments of hell's flame, do think God would allow them to remain in heaven if they were calling His judgement monstrous? Or, calling Almighty God evil for allowing eternal torment for those who die in their sins?
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Old 01-14-2011, 12:19 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,684,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
As Abraham and poor Lazarus looked across the great gulf to see the rich man in the torments of hell's flame, do think God would allow them to remain in heaven if they were calling His judgement monstrous? Or, calling Almighty God evil for allowing eternal torment for those who die in their sins?

Perhaps, but I have not said God is evil or what he does is evil.


Do you believe a person can belive something about God that is not true and therefore what they believe perhaps is something evil that they associate with God, either intentionally or unintentionally?


The issue here in this thread is that I have not said eternal torment is evil. I raise the question about it being necessarily to believe it is true in order to be saved.

Your argument has no bearing upon my comments, so it is not valid against what I believe.
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