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Old 01-15-2011, 08:49 AM
2,526 posts, read 2,342,227 times
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Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Thanks, legoman!
The word "might" is often used in the fulfillment of prophesy. "..that the scripture might be fulfilled..." (see Matt. 1.22; 2.15; 2.23; 4.14; 8.17; 12.17; 13.35; 21.4, etc......)

"But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved." John 5.34
-----Jesus knew what to do in order for mankind to be saved!

"The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe." John 1.7 -----Did God's plan to use John the Baptist fail??

"And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind." John 9.39 ----Did what Jesus say happen?

"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10.10 --------Did Jesus reach His objective here?? I think so!!

"Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." ------Did Jesus take His life up again?? YEP!

Comments? Am I missing something?

Moderator cut: deleted/reference to moderator actions

Here is my take on this. All of these verbs: "save" (Joh 5:34), "believe" (Joh 1:7), "see" (Joh 9:39), "made" (9:39), "have" (twice in Joh 10:10), and "take" (Joh 10:17) are in the Greek subjunctive mood. The translation of the Greek is probably correct in each of these cases, however, like your OP says, the context setting of each of the verbs use will determine it's understanding.

Here is an example of the Greek word τελειωσω (translated as "finish" or "accomplish") in the subjunctive mood, for three different translations:

Joh 5:36 `But I have the testimony greater than John's, for the works that the Father gave me, that I might finish them, the works themselves that I do, they testify concerning me, that the Father hath sent me.

Joh 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

Joh 5:36 "But the witness which I have is greater than that of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish, the very works that I do, bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me.

The YLT would appear to have the correct literal "translation", considering that the verb "finish" is being used in the subjunctive mood.

However, the KJV and NASB have taken the liberty of interpretation of it's context that this subjunctive mood is a purpose, rather than a mere possibility, and considering that Jesus is the one doing it, it is translated as a stated fact of what Jesus will finish or accomplish.

Anyway, just some thoughts here...

Last edited by june 7th; 01-15-2011 at 05:36 PM.. Reason: sp
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:29 AM
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,180,174 times
Reputation: 867
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
This "might" be one of the most desperate...one of the most diametrically opposing (aka - serious chop job) threads I've had the most unfortunate opportunity to read in all my 3 years here. For heaven's sake, get a dictionary and read it...at least.

satan is so condescending and stupid!!!...an unsult to my intelligence!!!...get thee behind me!!!

might - Past tense of may.

may - Past might, present may archaic mayest. Use as an auxiliary followed by an infinitive without to, or, in reply to a question or suggestion, with the infinitive understood. It can indicate: 1. A requesting or granting of permission: May I take a swim? You may. See usage note at can. 2. Possibility: It may rain this afternoon. 3. Ability or capacity, with the force of can: If I may be of service. See usage note at can. 4. Obligation or function, with the force of must or shall, in statutes, deeds, and other legal documents: "Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors." (Constitution). 5. Desire or fervent wish. Used chiefly in exclamatory phrases: Long may he live! 6. Contingency, purpose, or result, in clauses untroduced by that or so that: expressing ideas so that the average man may understand. 7. Less abrupt or pointed questioning: How old may this little boy be? [Middle English may, past mighte, moghte, Old English maeg (first and third person singular), past mighte, moghte, infinitive magan, to be strong, be able, have permission.

Usage: May and might are basically alike in meaning, in the sense of possibility and permission: they differ principally, in intensity, not in time. (This is because, in modern usage, these words are treated as subjunctive verbs, each capable of expressing present and future time, although might is, grammatically, the past tense of may.) May is stronger than might in both senses: He may leave suggests greater liklihood than He might leave; and May I go? is more forceful than the less importunate Might I go? Might is also used to signify obligation, in statements containing a mild reproof: You might show some gratitude. In the past perfect, might sometimes signifies a condition opposed to fact: He might have succeeded, if he had tried harder.

can - Past tense could, present tense can or archaic canst (for second person singular). Used as an auxiliary, followed by an infinitive without to, or with the infinitive understood, to indicate: 1. Ability: I can meet you today. 2. Possession of a specified power, right or means: The President can veto congressional bills. 3. Possession of a specified capacity or skill: He can tune the harpsichord as well as play it. 4. Possible contingency: I wonder if she can be alive. 5. Informal. A requesting or granting p0ermission: Can I be excused? No, you cannot! See Usage note below. [Can, could; Middle English can, coude (also couthe), Old English can (also con), cuthe, first and third person present and past indicative of cunnan, to know how.

Usage: Can, in formal usage, is employed to indicate ability to do something, and may to express permission to do it. Those who need an additional day to prepare may have it. May I have an additional day?

i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-e - U-n-b-e-l-i-e-v-a-b-l-e.

i-n-c-o-r-r-i-g-i-b-l-e - 1. Incapable of being corrected or reformed.

In Christ's love...and prayerfully in His truth,
Hi Verna,
I'm pleased to see that I've made your Guinness list!

The word might as defined in your dictionary definition above would be entry 6: purpose or contingency.

This is exactly the problem of understanding that I am wanting to address. The word might has nothing to do with wish when in reference to Jesus' mission. Jesus didn't "make a wish." It is about purpose and fulfillment.

So we can see here by your post, that you too (like I was also) have been deceived into thinking that Jesus came to try to save the world, but with no real guarantee of being able to do what He purposed. In fact, if He only "tried," then He is able to fail.

God's salvation is not dependent upon man, Verna. Imo, at least. He gets ALL the glory, not half.

I hope your eyes may be opened to this important distinction, sister. I doubt it, but the hope is there..

Since you sign "prayerfully," I trust you will pray about it..!

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Old 01-17-2011, 09:47 AM
38,187 posts, read 25,774,479 times
Reputation: 5913
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
This "might" be one of the most desperate...one of the most diametrically opposing (aka - serious chop job) threads I've had the most unfortunate opportunity to read in all my 3 years here. For heaven's sake, get a dictionary and read it...at least.
This seems to be a good place to point out some of the misconceptions under which literalists operate when reading multi-translated texts in plain English as inerrant, infallible truth using modern English meanings and understanding. Every language and culture has concepts, idioms, specific purposes and contexts for recordings that can NOT be represented in other languages, period. The idea that there is some universal underlying standard that enables transfer from one language and culture to another is misguided. Language places limitations on conceptualization that are not obvious to those NOT raised within it.

In the original Spanish, for example, there is no concept of compromise. In fact the cognate "compromiso" means a firm commitment . . . NO compromise. The assumption is that we all think using the same cognitive structures . . . we do NOT! When we step across cultures and languages . . . the differences can be stark. Languages and cultures EVOLVE. Multiple cross-cultural and linguistic translations across generations can produce major misundersandings and inferences. Simplistic literal reading in our own evolved English AS IF it inerrantly and infallibly represents what was originally recorded or intended is just wrong.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:47 AM
373 posts, read 315,436 times
Reputation: 98
Originally Posted by allenk893 View Post
I think everyone is called to God until the day they die.
The only salvation comes from believing in Jesus.
What about the OT saints like Abraham, Moses and Job?

I have met some Universalist on here that were ready to reject Christ if they accepted Hell was real. Saying they could not worship a God that would do that to people. All I have to say is that you gotta be really stupid to want to sacrifice your OWN eternal salvation and end up in Hell because your busy worrying about everyone else.
Spoken like a real Christian
YLTJohn 15
13 greater love than this hath no one, that any one his life may lay down for his friends;

You don't walk with them or hold hands on judgement day. We all stand alone.
The whole point of His teachings is that we are not alone. We should be like friends. Family. Not a bunch of hygenas.

The only thing you should be concerned about is getting others saved while there is still time for them. But many UR don't because they think everyone is going to Heaven when God clearly says otherwise in scripture.
Jesus spoke more about hell than about heaven. Right?
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