U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Are you going to accept this challenge?
Yes 3 60.00%
No 2 40.00%
Voters: 5. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 01-16-2011, 05:34 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,775,452 times
Reputation: 58199

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Hey Ilene, I notice that CU churches are very minimal in number compared to UU churches. Is there any particular reason for this?

The reason why most Christian websites do not allow Universalists to post is because most fundamental Christians believe that without the concept of eternal suffering in place, it eliminates all personal accountability for humans on this earth. If Universalism was indeed true, they would no longer belong to their "members only" club. Their status would be reduced. Without the doctrine of an eternal hell, their #1 recruitment tool goes completely out the window.

Let's be honest. What is the #1 factor that drives people to religion in the first place? Simple answer here: The fear of the afterlife. For the same reason Christians believe that ALL muslims are going to hell, it is a mutual feeling all muslims have towards Christians as well.

Right now, Universalism is the #1 threat to fundamental Christianity. They have a right to be worried. The concept of eternal love is a LOT more enticing than eternal torment. It also makes much more sense the closer one looks at the big picture.
Thanks Ditchlights, you're right Universalism IS the #1 threat to fundamental Christianity because it completely turns the whole concept of ET on it's head. It threatens the "control" that fundamental Christianity thinks they have to have in order to get recruits. And fear of an eternity of burning in some hell has indeed brought people to Christ out of fear, so the tactic works but it's just not the truth.

Wow, it's so clear to me now what the lie is and what the truth is and I just want others to see it too. Universalism is not some conspiracy to draw people away from Christianity, it is a very valid biblical belief. The truth is right there in the pages of the Bible, so it's not like Christian Universalism came out of left field somewhere. We still believe there is only one way to salvation and that is through Jesus Christ. We still believe all of the same exact things as fundamental Christianity with the biggest exception being no belief in an eternity of suffering for anyone. ALL will be reconciled to God in the end. We, CU's have quoted scripture after scripture over and over again proving this but I'll post a couple:

Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It just doesn't get much clearer than that.

And as far as CU churches.....you're right, there are none. Most CU's are still attending their regular denominations because after all, they're still Christians!! But they sit in silence because of fear of the backlash and being ostracized. City-Data is a place where they don't have to be silent and the truth can be shared. It's an unofficial "church" for CU's.

 
Old 01-16-2011, 05:36 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,590,407 times
Reputation: 297
I promise you... Satan's biggest weapon these days is passing out a liscense to sin and taking repentence out of the gospel. This is very easy to do to Christians who don't pray, read the word, and worship... in earnest. You don't have to believe in eternal torment to be saved, you just have to deny repentence is part of the Gospel, and Satan is very clever in convincing people of this. It's his proffession.

Hey so should we change the name of this thread before we jack it all up? Hey, I'm guilty of it too. Who knows, maybe even if it is locked it will still produce some fruit.

Ok, in honor of Ilene and her fellowship, I now call this thread... hmmm... "The Body of Christ Thread". Please be respectfull.
 
Old 01-16-2011, 05:38 PM
 
5,500 posts, read 4,430,721 times
Reputation: 5148
If we leave the heavenly things to the Almighty God and just focus on the things that are seen and felt...i.e., love and compassion for one another with utmost humility, taught by "The Christ"...we would be more spiritually productive and less anxious about differing human doctrines.

Share your thoughts...and allow others to express how they processed this same truth with respect...with the seed being sown, we can then move on! Is this possible??? I pray so...

John 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

We all have this strong bond that unite us...our love for the Creator and the Christ...let start from there...just saying.


In God's time...all the puzzle pieces will come to fruition and we shall all be justified!

Blessings...
 
Old 01-16-2011, 05:42 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,590,407 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by ans57 View Post
If we leave the heavenly things to the Almighty God and just focus on the things that are seen and felt...i.e., love and compassion for one another with utmost humility, taught by "The Christ"...we would be more spiritually productive and less anxious about differing human doctrines.

Share your thoughts...and allow others to express how they processed this same truth with respect...with the seed being sown, we can then move on! Is this possible??? I pray so...

John 3:12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

We all have this strong bond that unite us...our love for the Creator and the Christ...let start from there...just saying.


In God's time...all the puzzle pieces will come to fruition and we shall all be justified!

Blessings...
Ok, who's going with us?
 
Old 01-16-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,192,969 times
Reputation: 8879
The gospel is an "offence" to the natural man. It's a real problem in the Chruch today that leaders and pastors want to preach the word without offending anyone. Well, according to the bible, everyone not truly saved will be offended by the good news. The bible also commands us to "Preach the good news" and God uses this word to save His elect. If I'm witnessing to the unsaved and I'm not offending anyone I'm doing something wrong!!!
 
Old 01-16-2011, 06:04 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,590,407 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
The gospel is an "offence" to the natural man. It's a real problem in the Chruch today that leaders and pastors want to preach the word without offending anyone. Well, according to the bible, everyone not truly saved will be offended by the good news. The bible also commands us to "Preach the good news" and God uses this word to save His elect. If I'm witnessing to the unsaved and I'm not offending anyone I'm doing something wrong!!!
I agree. Were living in some pretty tough days so even when we tell them the truth in love most of the time the weeds choke the seed. However, the more we pray and draw near to God the more of the annointing of the Holy Spirit we will have and that's critical. When the gaurds were asked, "why didn't you arrest him", speaking of Jesus, they said, "because we never heard anyone speak like this before". When we allow God to speak through us by the power of the Holy Spirit we can be very effective. But this is absolutely not possible if our prayer life has deminished, and we have fallen from our first love - not loving God or eachother like we should.
 
Old 01-16-2011, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,192,969 times
Reputation: 8879
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilene Wright View Post
Thanks Ditchlights, you're right Universalism IS the #1 threat to fundamental Christianity because it completely turns the whole concept of ET on it's head. It threatens the "control" that fundamental Christianity thinks they have to have in order to get recruits. And fear of an eternity of burning in some hell has indeed brought people to Christ out of fear, so the tactic works but it's just not the truth.

Wow, it's so clear to me now what the lie is and what the truth is and I just want others to see it too. Universalism is not some conspiracy to draw people away from Christianity, it is a very valid biblical belief. The truth is right there in the pages of the Bible, so it's not like Christian Universalism came out of left field somewhere. We still believe there is only one way to salvation and that is through Jesus Christ. We still believe all of the same exact things as fundamental Christianity with the biggest exception being no belief in an eternity of suffering for anyone. ALL will be reconciled to God in the end. We, CU's have quoted scripture after scripture over and over again proving this but I'll post a couple:

Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

It just doesn't get much clearer than that.

And as far as CU churches.....you're right, there are none. Most CU's are still attending their regular denominations because after all, they're still Christians!! But they sit in silence because of fear of the backlash and being ostracized. City-Data is a place where they don't have to be silent and the truth can be shared. It's an unofficial "church" for CU's.
Your statement that "it doesn't get any clearer than that" shows a large misunderstanding of the bible. If you want to take statements totally litterally as you are doing in this case then 1 Timothy 2:4 is clearly saying that only men will be saved. There is much misunderstanding about the use of the word "all " in the bible. We can only interperet the bible from the bible. We know for sure that God is all powerful. What God desires comes to pass and nothing in the universe is outside of His control. So, when the word says that God would have All men to be saved it's very clear that it means that All of God's elect will be saved because that is the will of God.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess does not say anything about salvation at all. It's referring to the fact that at the judgement everyone will know this fact for sure whether they are saved or not.
 
Old 01-16-2011, 06:28 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,590,407 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
Your statement that "it doesn't get any clearer than that" shows a large misunderstanding of the bible. If you want to take statements totally litterally as you are doing in this case then 1 Timothy 2:4 is clearly saying that only men will be saved. There is much misunderstanding about the use of the word "all " in the bible. We can only interperet the bible from the bible. We know for sure that God is all powerful. What God desires comes to pass and nothing in the universe is outside of His control. So, when the word says that God would have All men to be saved it's very clear that it means that All of God's elect will be saved because that is the will of God.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess does not say anything about salvation at all. It's referring to the fact that at the judgement everyone will know this fact for sure whether they are saved or not.
Right, this is obvious since there are many other places in the Word of God that tell us that many won't make it to Heaven. God wants them to make it, but many won't. My foundation says:

“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’
Building on a Solid Foundation

24 “Anyone who listens to my teaching and follows it is wise, like a person who builds a house on solid rock. 25 Though the rain comes in torrents and the floodwaters rise and the winds beat against that house, it won’t collapse because it is built on bedrock. 26 But anyone who hears my teaching and doesn’t obey it is foolish, like a person who builds a house on sand. 27 When the rains and floods come and the winds beat against that house, it will collapse with a mighty crash.”

*This should convict us all and challenge us to earnestly seek God in prayer as we read the teachings of Yahushua. It's impossible for anyone to go into the quiet place as we repent of sin and cry out to God in humility and not understand this. Imagine that, many believers aren't going to make it to Heaven. And what's worse is many of them probably are going to drag even more people down with them. I think the main problem is Satan lies to us when the Holy Spirit convicts us and says, as if he's God, "Hey, that's not me, I wouldn't condemn you". When the Holy Spirit convicts us we need to understand that it's not condemnation.

But it's also important to remember we are not to judge. If another believer dissagrees, who are we to say they haven't themselves repented of sin? That's between them and God. We are supposed to love each other. No matter what.

Last edited by O-Ducky; 01-16-2011 at 06:40 PM..
 
Old 01-16-2011, 06:29 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,775,452 times
Reputation: 58199
Quote:
Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
Your statement that "it doesn't get any clearer than that" shows a large misunderstanding of the bible. If you want to take statements totally litterally as you are doing in this case then 1 Timothy 2:4 is clearly saying that only men will be saved. There is much misunderstanding about the use of the word "all " in the bible. We can only interperet the bible from the bible. We know for sure that God is all powerful. What God desires comes to pass and nothing in the universe is outside of His control. So, when the word says that God would have All men to be saved it's very clear that it means that All of God's elect will be saved because that is the will of God.

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess does not say anything about salvation at all. It's referring to the fact that at the judgement everyone will know this fact for sure whether they are saved or not.
Those were just a couple of examples and I still stand by what I said, it's doesn't get any clearer when you actually study it out. That's my suggestion to you. Now back to the OP, this is off topic and turning into a UR/ET debate.
 
Old 01-16-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,535 posts, read 7,600,680 times
Reputation: 12261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think I heard universalism mentioned only once at church in Bible study when we talked about false teachings in general, and even then it was mentioned only among many other false teachings. I think the watered down liberal teachings are a biggest reason that keeps people from having a personal relationship with God.
Would it make you happy if everyone other than a select few burned in hell?

Do you truly believe that the majority of people on earth deserve hell?

Do you believe that once you're in heaven, you will be able to watch the people in hell that are being tormented?

Do you realize that to most other religions, fundamental Christianity is considered to be a false teaching?

Do you deny the fact that people of other religions can have a personal relationship with a higher power?

I was raised in a church that taught the ET doctrine. I see that outlook as being so bleak and unwarrented. I'm glad you believe that you are on the right track. When you watch me and others burning in hell, will you feel that it is justified that such a small population gets to enjoy what you are enjoying?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top