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Old 01-16-2011, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Where do you find iniquity?
Is it not, in the heart of Mankind?
As it is...only after the law arrives....for I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died because for without the law sin [was] dead....and has no meaning...and that there is a new law that ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, [even] to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God....for those without the law not men, as I [am, that] I should answer him, [and] we should come together in judgment.

No law - No sin - No life - Darkness
Law - Sin - Life through Christ - Light
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:59 AM
 
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2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

People should make wise decisions with the free will that God has extended to them, for He will come back to take an account.

Matthew 25
[14] For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
[15] And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
[16] Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
[17] And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
[18] But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
[19] After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them.
[20] And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.
[21] His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[22] He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.
[23] His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
[24] Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
[25] And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
[26] His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
[27] Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
[28] Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
[29] For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
[30] And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Florida -
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I believe that God has different types of 'will', only one of which is 'imposed by power' (That being God's ultimate will and plan for the creation of this world and mankind).

God also has an individual will (desire) for our lives ... "that all should come unto repentence and none should perish" -- however, scripture goes on to say, "BUT, the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night" --- suggesting here, and elsewhere, that this 'will' of God, will not be imposed by force on the rebellious and unwilling.

God also has a circumstantial or situational will for our lives; ... that we submit to and obey Him and live the type of righteous life in relationship with Him, that He created us to live. However, SIN gets in the way -- and, even when we intend to obey, we sometimes fall short of the mark (Rom 7).

But, by God's Grace toward mankind, He has provided the 'sin solution' -- Jesus Christ, through whom all have the opportunity to be saved. However, by God's will, He also created people with the 'free will' opportunity to choose to accept or reject/ignore His individual and circumstantial will. His will is that all who accept His will, will receive the love, life and relationship He offers; AND, that all who choose throughout this lifetime to reject/ignore His will, will also receive what they have willfully chosen: ... eternal separation from God.

While the latter is not God's will (desire); He 'cannot' overturn or cancel-out man's choice, without, at the same time, cancelling-out mercy, grace and the value of Christ's sacrificial death.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:09 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,584,987 times
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We do have free will of course, and God does have plans that will not be revoked. That's not a contradiction. There is a such thing as predistination. Jeremiah would be an example. Jeremiah was a little seed that God took from Heaven and planted it in the earth. However, Jeremiah did have a limited free will.

John the Baptist is also a good example - even better than Jeremiah. The two last witnesses are other examples. Revelation is an example - Nothing can change what's written in Revelation. What people fail to understand is that when God speaks to us about the future its not allways his plan but he does know what is going to happen in the future.

Another example would be Pharoah. He intentionally hardened Pharoahs heart. He allready knew Pharoahs heart and he is God, he can do things like this for his Glory. If he knows Pharoah has allready made his choice, he is perfectly just in using him for his Glory.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,451 posts, read 31,853,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
I believe that God has different types of 'will', only one of which is 'imposed by power' (That being God's ultimate will and plan for the creation of this world and mankind).

God also has an individual will (desire) for our lives ... "that all should come unto repentence and none should perish" -- however, scripture goes on to say, "BUT, the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night" --- suggesting here, and elsewhere, that this 'will' of God, will not be imposed by force on the rebellious and unwilling.

God also has a circumstantial or situational will for our lives; ... that we submit to and obey Him and live the type of righteous life in relationship with Him, that He created us to live. However, SIN gets in the way -- and, even when we intend to obey, we sometimes fall short of the mark (Rom 7).

But, by God's Grace toward mankind, He has provided the 'sin solution' -- Jesus Christ, through whom all have the opportunity to be saved. However, by God's will, He also created people with the 'free will' opportunity to choose to accept or reject/ignore His individual and circumstantial will. His will is that all who accept His will, will receive the love, life and relationship He offers; AND, that all who choose throughout this lifetime to reject/ignore His will, will also receive what they have willfully chosen: ... eternal separation from God.

While the latter is not God's will (desire); He 'cannot' overturn or cancel-out man's choice, without, at the same time, cancelling-out mercy, grace and the value of Christ's sacrificial death.
Yes, God has different wills. For example He desired people to obey the 10 Commandments, but no one did, and Jesus desired to gather Israel under his wings, but they refused, and God desires that all men would believe Christ, but many reject Him. God permits us to act against His will, and that equates to free will. It is God's permissive will.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:49 PM
 
17,667 posts, read 8,860,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Yes, God has different wills. For example He desired people to obey the 10 Commandments, but no one did, and Jesus desired to gather Israel under his wings, but they refused, and God desires that all men would believe Christ, but many reject Him. God permits us to act against His will, and that equates to free will. It is God's permissive will.
It amazes me that in the linguistic usage of permissive, men believe that their desire supersedes the ultimate will of the father of all creation.

Unbelievable!
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Satan was made perfect, until iniquity took him over.

Ezekiel 28
[13] Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
[14] Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
[15] Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
[16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
[17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
[18] Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
[19] All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Not at all. Satan doesn't exist apart from man. No man = no Satan. You can't have Satan without there being man. Also, realize that the verses you quoted shows that this person will eventually be ASHES and "never shalt thou be any more".
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:54 PM
 
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Hey Finn, you must be drawing really close to God. It's so easy to see who is seeking God when they come here and post things.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,626,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
2 Peter 2:4 - For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Angel is from a Greek word that simply means messengers. To be reserved unto darkness is what happens to all of us that sin. I will be reserved unto chains of darkness when I die to then later be judged.

Quote:
People should make wise decisions with the free will that God has extended to them, for He will come back to take an account.
Define "free will".
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,284,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
It amazes me that in the linguistic usage of permissive, men believe that their desire supersedes the ultimate will of the father of all creation.

Unbelievable!
Dear Jerwade....the ultimate will of the Father is complete in Christ, now we must knock on the door, come drink freely, and bring honor to Him.
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