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Old 01-23-2011, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,108,802 times
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Can we give God 100 percent of the glory? Or do we need to take 50 percent for ourselves?

Just a thought... both in regard to faith and also our alledged "free will."

Blessings,
brian
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I really dont understand the trouble you are having with what i wrote.
I am sorry if I wasn't clearer.

If we, as all of creation, becomes drawn to Him at the consummation of the ages, is not that adding to His glory?
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Old 01-23-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The millennial kingdom after his return, the the serpent is released for a season to deceive the nations, and then Finally all things will be made subject to Christ so God can be all in all, but this will not happen until after Christs return and then after the nations are deceived again.
You should really read Jubilees, 2 Enoch and the Epistle of Barnabas, if you want to completely understand the Millennial Reign.
But that is another topic altogether.
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:07 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,198,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I am sorry if I wasn't clearer.

If we, as all of creation, becomes drawn to Him at the consummation of the ages, is not that adding to His glory?
Mankind cannot add to the glory of God, but God can add to his own glory by accomplishing all that he desires through his word as the scriptures clearly teach that he will do.

Does this mean that God was/is lacking in any glory before he accomplishes his desires? No, at least not in reality, though in the minds of men it seems so ...

Because we look around us in the world and as of yet we see what seems to be the prevailing victory of sin and death over most of the creation, but when all is said and done, then at last all who doubted the true glory of God and his ability to accomplish all that he desires will be destroyed, and all will come to know the full glory of God in all that he has accomplished throughout all creation for all that he has made.

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-23-2011 at 04:17 PM..
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Old 01-23-2011, 04:16 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,198,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
You should really read Jubilees, 2 Enoch and the Epistle of Barnabas, if you want to completely understand the Millennial Reign.
But that is another topic altogether.
Yes that is an another topic, and i do not rely on extra biblical texts that are not canonical to understand the scriptures.

I have read 1st and 2nd and 3rd Enoch, and though they are certainly interesting, i do not believe that they are divinely inspired, but are instead based on old Jewish folklore and fables that developed after many years of Babylonian captivity.

I will read through them again and we could take up the topic in another thread if you so desire ...
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Old 01-23-2011, 05:26 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,628,309 times
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Do I stutter?
Now that is just rude.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:23 PM
 
37,500 posts, read 25,232,088 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
I am sorry if I wasn't clearer.

If we, as all of creation, becomes drawn to Him at the consummation of the ages, is not that adding to His glory?
How do you add to infinity, Sciota??? God is infinite glory. Only we puny creatures seek glory as a finite goal.
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:47 AM
 
351 posts, read 283,133 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is you who will not listen. Isa 14 and Ezekiel 28 are indeed talking about Satan. The real power behind the throne of Tyre and Babylon was Satan.

Whereas in Eze 28:1-10 it is the actual king who is being addressed, at verse 11, it is Satan who is being referred to. The human king of Tyre was never in Eden, the garden of God. Nor did the human king of Tyre ever have the seal of perfection. Nor was the human king of Tyre ever the annointed churub who covered the mercy seat of God in heaven. And the human king of Tyre was never blameless in his ways from the day he was created - the human king was not created, he was born. These things are references to Satan.

In Isaiah 14:13-14, those are the five 'I wills' that resulted in Satan's moral fall, and his condemnation.

Because you reject fundamental doctrine and prefer to allegorize the blazes out of the Bible, you will reject this out of hand. That is your choice.
Hi Mike: Sorry this responce is a couple of days late but my computer broke.

[LEFT]11 And coming is the word of Yahweh to me, saying: 12ďSon of mankind, lift a dirge over the king of Tyre, and say to him, ĎThus says the Lord Yahweh:[/LEFT]
You are the seal-print of a model,
Full of wisdom and consummate in loveliness.13In the luxury of the garden of God you come to be.
Of every precious gem is your booth-like pavilion:Carnelian, peridot and diamond,
Topaz, onyx and jasper,
Lapis lazuli, carbuncle and emerald, And with gold you have filled the shoulders of your pavilion
And your alcoves which are in you. In the day of your creation, 14they establish the anointed cherubís booth,
And I bestow you in the holy mountain of God; you come to be in the midst of the fiery gems.15You walk flawless in your ways, from the day of your creation, till iniquity is found in you.16In the increasing of your trading, they fill your midst with wrong, and you are sinning.And I am violating by thrusting you from the mountain of God,
And destroying you is the cherub of the booth from the midst of the fiery gems.17Haughty is your heart in your loveliness.
You ruin your wisdom on account of your shining.7For the multitude of your sins,0 on the earth have I flung you,
Before kings have I given you to make of you a spectacle.18Because of the multitude of your depravities,
By the iniquity of your trading, you violate your sanctuaries,And I am bringing forth fire from your midst. It devours you,
And I am giving you to be ashes on the earth for the eyes of all to see you.19All who know you among the peoples are desolate over you,
Decadent you become and there is nothing of you for the eon.íĒ

I don't understand why you say that the verses change from the King of Tyre to Satin at verse 11. This is all about the King of Tyre. It is from a human's perspective not a heavenly one. He was a seal-print(perfection) from a human point of view. It says you were in EDEN, which means luxury, in a garden of God. Notice this garden, and God has many gardens, he owns the whole world, is a garden of minerals not of trees and plats like Adam and Eve were in. He was given an annointed cherubn not he was one. In verses 16 it talks of him increasing his trade, Saten is not interested in trade or material things. Satin was never thrown down bedore kings and turned into ashes. This is the King of Tyre and it is a lesson for us to learn from.

The verses in Isaiah are about the King of Babylon not Satin. The King thought he was as great as God and God humbled him. Lucifer in this scripture is a bad translation of the word that mean Howl. Lucifer is a Roman name and that languge was not in use in the scriptures.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:42 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sschulz View Post
Hi Mike: Sorry this responce is a couple of days late but my computer broke.

[LEFT]11 And coming is the word of Yahweh to me, saying: 12“Son of mankind, lift a dirge over the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord Yahweh:[/LEFT]
You are the seal-print of a model,
Full of wisdom and consummate in loveliness.13In the luxury of the garden of God you come to be.
Of every precious gem is your booth-like pavilion:Carnelian, peridot and diamond,
Topaz, onyx and jasper,
Lapis lazuli, carbuncle and emerald, And with gold you have filled the shoulders of your pavilion
And your alcoves which are in you. In the day of your creation, 14they establish the anointed cherub’s booth,
And I bestow you in the holy mountain of God; you come to be in the midst of the fiery gems.15You walk flawless in your ways, from the day of your creation, till iniquity is found in you.16In the increasing of your trading, they fill your midst with wrong, and you are sinning.And I am violating by thrusting you from the mountain of God,
And destroying you is the cherub of the booth from the midst of the fiery gems.17Haughty is your heart in your loveliness.
You ruin your wisdom on account of your shining.7For the multitude of your sins,0 on the earth have I flung you,
Before kings have I given you to make of you a spectacle.18Because of the multitude of your depravities,
By the iniquity of your trading, you violate your sanctuaries,And I am bringing forth fire from your midst. It devours you,
And I am giving you to be ashes on the earth for the eyes of all to see you.19All who know you among the peoples are desolate over you,
Decadent you become and there is nothing of you for the eon.’”

I don't understand why you say that the verses change from the King of Tyre to Satin at verse 11. This is all about the King of Tyre. It is from a human's perspective not a heavenly one. He was a seal-print(perfection) from a human point of view. It says you were in EDEN, which means luxury, in a garden of God. Notice this garden, and God has many gardens, he owns the whole world, is a garden of minerals not of trees and plats like Adam and Eve were in. He was given an annointed cherubn not he was one. In verses 16 it talks of him increasing his trade, Saten is not interested in trade or material things. Satin was never thrown down bedore kings and turned into ashes. This is the King of Tyre and it is a lesson for us to learn from.

The verses in Isaiah are about the King of Babylon not Satin. The King thought he was as great as God and God humbled him. Lucifer in this scripture is a bad translation of the word that mean Howl. Lucifer is a Roman name and that languge was not in use in the scriptures.
In the respective passage, both the king of Tyre and the king of Babylon and the true power behind those thrones - Satan, are being referred to. The description in Ezekiel 28:11 and following are not of any man, but are of Satan. No man was ever a cherub angel. Not man ever covered the mercy seat. And the human king of Tyre was not created and he certainly wasn't blameless in his ways.

Satan who is called Lucifer or perhaps more accurately Helel Ben Shachar is a cherub angel who before he fell, was one of the cherubs who covered the mercy seat in heaven as an honor guard. It is he who is described in both Isaiah and Ezekiel along with the respective human kings.
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,286,196 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Now that is just rude.
How is it rude? Your asking me was insulting IMO...as if my conversation didn't spell it out clearly enough for you?
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