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But I WONT respond if I'm carnal. That is the point. The carnal mind HATES God.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
enmity = hate
So if I'm carnal, that scripture tells me that I hate God, and therefore, it is incomprehensible that something that hates something else will then choose it.
The carnal mind is the one who walks after the flesh, and in the case of Romans, Paul is clear who that is...the son of the bondwoman....the Jew.
You can't apply that characteristic to a person who is unsaved today...you just can't. It will confuse the theme Paul is addressing. He is comparing, to the Romans, the Jew, and the one who has accepted the promise of Christ....the son of the free woman....Sarah.
Makes you wonder when God means what He says, and when he means the opposite of what He says.
What is shows me is that He is telling us what His will is but is also telling us that we were created with a will that is contrary to His. This means that we were incomplete. In fact, Adam was incomplete which is why Adam was in opposition to God and transgressed God's Law.
So God tellins us "that shall not..." in His commandments is REVEALing what His will is. But we are to understand that we don't have that will. We are void of it. The only way we can get that will (His will) is if He gives us the desire to have it. That is the ONLY way.
So if anyone that is carnal is to believe then even the desire to believe must be GIVEN to that person by God. Otherwise, we are incapable of believing Him. So do we choose God, - yes but not by our desire (for as explained, our desire HATES God). So this desire must come from God. This is consistent with our scriptures which says that He will give us a new heart and a new spirit.
The carnal mind is the one who walks after the flesh, and in the case of Romans, Paul is clear who that is...the son of the bondwoman....the Jew.
You can't apply that characteristic to a person who is unsaved today...you just can't. It will confuse the theme Paul is addressing. He is comparing, to the Romans, the Jew, and the one who has accepted the promise of Christ....the son of the free woman....Sarah.
The Jew hated God, because he killed Christ!
Yes, I can apply it to someone who is unsaved today. All of us are carnal minded before we can ever have the mind of Christ. It leaves me no confusion as to what Paul is saying.
If we are carnal then even the DESIRE to believe must be given to us by God. Otherwise, there is no possible way the carnal man can come to Christ.
This is consistent with the scriptures which show that we can only come to the Father if the Father draws us. If that is the case then the desire itself comes from God.
So God tellins us "that shall not..." in His commandments is REVEALing what His will is..
Exactly. When He gave the commandments, He revealed his will/desire to us, and we went against it. When He said "love your neighbor", He revealed His will for us. He desired us to love our neighbors, but that is not always what happens. In other words God permits us to go against His will. That's all I was saying.
Yes, I can apply it to someone who is unsaved today. All of us are carnal minded before we can ever have the mind of Christ. It leaves me no confusion as to what Paul is saying.
If we are carnal then even the DESIRE to believe must be given to us by God. Otherwise, there is no possible way the carnal man can come to Christ.
This is consistent with the scriptures which show that we can only come to the Father if the Father draws us. If that is the case then the desire itself comes from God.
No you can't trettep, because the Jew, who knew the law, the prophets, and Moses, whom all pointed to Christ and the gospel, chose the flesh, and those who chose what the above revealed, became the heirs of promise and the sons of the free woman. Someone who is unsaved is neither carnal, or spiritually minded, because they have no law. Paul is addressing himself and those of his creed that chose Christ...from one father - Abraham, but of the free woman, and since he is proclaiming the law to these men and women, who are none other than his congregation...most likely Clement's, who live in Rome, and are Christians!!
Last edited by sciotamicks; 01-16-2011 at 05:23 PM..
There are different wills, and you confuse 'ultimate' with 'permissive'.
Now, that's the funniest thing I have heard all day.
Well, almost ...but you might want to reverse this, as you are confusing his ultimate Will with that of your own desires.
"The right, power, or privilege of making a choice requires judgment."
Although, this judgment is not what you have been taught to believe; unrighteously.
Angel is from a Greek word that simply means messengers. To be reserved unto darkness is what happens to all of us that sin. I will be reserved unto chains of darkness when I die to then later be judged.
Many miss the mark on this one. Or should I say, they have retained the mark of the beast.
Even after being called out!
I am not ridiculing you, or treating you with contempt.
I will leave that to you and those who believe the fallacies taught by men.
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