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Old 01-17-2011, 10:52 PM
 
724 posts, read 1,429,123 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Thanks! Someone sure put a lot of wasted effort into that. Funny read though trying to see someone trying to make sense of complete absurdities and explain them away.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:25 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,319,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
It might be of interest to note the Nephilim is applied to the sons of Anak, who, at that time, were distinguished (Num.13:33).

Num 13:33 There we saw the distinguished (the sons of Anak are part of the distinguished ones). And we became, in our own eyes, like grasshoppers; so we became in their eyes.

They were simply human beings of natural origin. The term "nephilim" just means "distinguished" according to A.E. Knoch's work on that word in the Hebrew.
He's flat out ignorantly -or deceitfully- wrong.
The word is from Hebrew naphal "to fall". The giants/nephillim are offspring of fallen angels [ben Elohym/sons of God] and daughters of Adam [bath Adam], as Moses and Enoch say.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:32 AM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,319,185 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEconomist
the Bible says that Adam and Eve were the first humans .
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Actually it doesn't friend.
Adam means "human =man" -and yes it does, as Eusebius posted; but Adam was made male and female, in the beginning, of one spirit [Malachi 3:15-the Adam spirit], one flesh, one bone, and one blood; because the Creator sought "sons of God" of the human being kind, so as to build a human being temple "not made with hands" for His Glory to indwell.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:26 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Actually it does friend:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 CLV (45) If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also.
Thus it is written also, The first human, Adam, "became a
living soul:the last Adam a vivifying Spirit." (46) But not first the
spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." (47) The first human was
out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven."

Since Adam was the first human and Eve came out of the first human it proves Adam and Eve were the first humans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
The cultural surroundings of Genesis places Adam and his successors after the Old Stone Age and at the threshold of the Bronze Age, a time frame called the Neolithic Age. References to tents, farming, livestock, musical instruments, implements of bronze, and even iron in the Genesis narrative give us a rough time frame where Adam belongs. Secondly, if Adam was the first human, then Christ is the last Adam...or human....and we are all living in a reality that never existed after Christ...since He is the last human. Carry on....dear Eusebius.
Clever, but not clever enough to completly undo the Scriptures. What Adam did affected every human who has ever lived and will ever live. That means he really was the first HUMAN. Read Romans 5 concentrating on verses 12 and 18 and 19.

Christ was not said to be the "last human" as you twisted into the conversation. He is said to be the last ADAM. Read the passage again above and learn from the expert. You are out of your league sciota. 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 calls Adam the FIRST HUMAN. It does not call Christ "the LAST HUMAN. Gheesh!
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:31 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
It might be of interest to note the Nephilim is applied to the sons of Anak, who, at that time, were distinguished (Num.13:33).

Num 13:33 There we saw the distinguished (the sons of Anak are part of the distinguished ones). And we became, in our own eyes, like grasshoppers; so we became in their eyes.

They were simply human beings of natural origin. The term "nephilim" just means "distinguished" according to A.E. Knoch's work on that word in the Hebrew.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yeshuasavedme View Post
He's flat out ignorantly -or deceitfully- wrong.
The word is from Hebrew naphal "to fall". The giants/nephillim are offspring of fallen angels [ben Elohym/sons of God] and daughters of Adam [bath Adam], as Moses and Enoch say.
Actually he is correct. The nephilim were mortals.

Gen 6:4 Now the distinguished [nephilim] come to be in the earth in those days, and, moreover, afterward, coming are those who are sons of the elohim to the daughters of the human, and they bear for them. They are the masters, who are from the eon, mortals with the name.

Adam was a son of elohim. He too was a mortal. They were mortal, They were not immortal angels or spirit beings. They were mortal flesh and blood humans.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:40 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Absolutely. That is how God wanted it and got it.

This sets the stage so all mankind will know what it is like to be saved out of sin and death through the second Adam.

Or do you think God is also unfair by making all mankind righteous due to what one Man did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
If this was remotely true, it would be the biggest BS this universe has ever seen. Set man up to fail JUST to show off some kind of power trip while in between, all the suffering and pain mankind has known. That sounds like the mind of some sadistic despot than an all-wise being.
Heck that's nothing. God also gave the law of Moses to the Israelites not because He thought they could keep it but knowing full well in advance that they would not and could not keep it. This was done so that the "offense would increase"

Rom 5:20 Yet law came in by the way, that the offense should be increasing.
Yet where sin increases, grace superexceeds,

In romans 8 verses 7 thru 8:

Rom 8:7-8 "because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is
not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able." (8) Now those who are
in flesh are not able to please God.

The law was given to escort the Israelites to Christ:

Gal 3:24 So that the law has become our escort to Christ, that we may be
justified by faith."

So when God created Adam and Eve He created them flesh and soulish knowing full well in advance that they not only would not but could not comply with the law He laid down in Eden. This was to lead humanity to Christ.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:56 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Like I said, pure B.S!!!
I don't appreciate your demeaning words Insane. If you can't enter into the discussion with something to add to it then don't post at all, O.K.?

That being said, God does not bring the entire creation into the slavery of corruption just to fulfill some sadistic desire He has. Rather the end is far more glorious than the getting to the goal. Read Romans 8

Rom 8:18-22 For I am reckoning that the sufferings of the current era do
not deserve the glory about to be revealed for us. (19) For the premonition
of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God. (20) For to
vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who
subjects it, in expectation" (21) that the creation itself, also, shall be freed
from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of
God." (22) For we are aware that the entire creation is groaning and
travailing together until now.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:13 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,730,862 times
Reputation: 1351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
I don't appreciate your demeaning words Insane. If you can't enter into the discussion with something to add to it then don't post at all, O.K.?

That being said, God does not bring the entire creation into the slavery of corruption just to fulfill some sadistic desire He has. Rather the end is far more glorious than the getting to the goal. Read Romans 8

Rom 8:18-22 For I am reckoning that the sufferings of the current era do
not deserve the glory about to be revealed for us. (19) For the premonition
of the creation is awaiting the unveiling of the sons of God. (20) For to
vanity was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who
subjects it, in expectation" (21) that the creation itself, also, shall be freed
from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of
God." (22) For we are aware that the entire creation is groaning and
travailing together until now.
I know the mods can get giddy about such things and I expect it to be edited/deleted (most likely) because someone goes crying to them, however, I have to call the concept what it is - pure foolishness. If a person came to me and told me he worked for a automobile CEO who made defective cars that caused the deaths of people in order to sell, better, more expensive cars, what do you think you or I would call such a thing?

What you're essentially saying here is that god created mankind to fail just so...This makes NOT one lick of sense and for those who claim it does, they might want to check their sense of reasoning.
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Old 01-18-2011, 07:13 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,382,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Christ was not said to be the "last human" as you twisted into the conversation. He is said to be the last ADAM. Read the passage again above and learn from the expert. You are out of your league sciota. 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 calls Adam the FIRST HUMAN. It does not call Christ "the LAST HUMAN. Gheesh!
Actually, it does. It calls Christ the second man, or human being. CLV has taken this verse and totally gobbly gooked it's meaning. Here it is broken down, and notice the word anthrōpos, which means in it's basic form:

1) a human being, whether male or female

The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

Now you can probably argue that verse 45 is talking about the 'second Adam', but when you look at the hebrew word adam, what do we find?

1) man, mankind
a) man, human being
b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)

So, here is THAT verse again:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

So, how many 'men' were 'made'?

2

You were not made, you were procreated, by your parents. God personally made 2 men. One from the dust of the ground, and One from the womb of Mary.

The rest of mankind has been around for thousands of years. They were created in Genesis after the animals. Adam was formed out of the dust of the ground BEFORE the animals, which means these creation stories are not the same.

Right?

And who is the 'expert'?
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:12 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,473,499 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Actually, it does. It calls Christ the second man, or human being. CLV has taken this verse and totally gobbly gooked it's meaning. Here it is broken down, and notice the word anthrōpos, which means in it's basic form:
Actually it does not. It does not call Christ the last human as opposed to calling Adam the first human. The Concordant Literal got it perfectly right on the target.

If you are going to play wordsmith and say "Adam" means "human" does it make sense to say "The first human human" No.

Quote:
1)
Quote:
a human being, whether male or female

The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
Again, it calls Adam the first human. It does not call Christ "the last human."

Quote:
Now you can probably argue that verse 45 is talking about the 'second Adam', but when you look at the hebrew word adam, what do we find?

1) man, mankind
a) man, human being
b) man, mankind (much more frequently intended sense in OT)

So, here is THAT verse again:

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

So, how many 'men' were 'made'?

2

You were not made, you were procreated, by your parents. God personally made 2 men. One from the dust of the ground, and One from the womb of Mary.

The rest of mankind has been around for thousands of years. They were created in Genesis after the animals. Adam was formed out of the dust of the ground BEFORE the animals, which means these creation stories are not the same.

Right?

And who is the 'expert'?
I am the expert.

We know for a fact that Christ was not the last human. He was the last Adam.

Adam was the first Adam

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 CLV (45) If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also.
Thus it is written also, The first human, Adam, "became a
living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit." (46) But not first the
spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." (47) The first human was
out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven."

Since Adam was the first human and Eve came out of the first human it proves Adam and Eve were the first humans.

Notice Paul does not call Christ the last man but "the second Man."
Now Paul is not saying Christ was Abel.

What he is showing is that there are just two Adams that are controlling the destiny of mankind. There is not going to be another Adam after Christ that will affect humanity. He is the last and final Adam.

Adam was the first human. He was not the first human human.

Now who is the expert? I am. You are not.
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