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Old 01-18-2011, 08:20 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,444,857 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I know the mods can get giddy about such things and I expect it to be edited/deleted (most likely) because someone goes crying to them, however, I have to call the concept what it is - pure foolishness. If a person came to me and told me he worked for a automobile CEO who made defective cars that caused the deaths of people in order to sell, better, more expensive cars, what do you think you or I would call such a thing?

What you're essentially saying here is that god created mankind to fail just so...This makes NOT one lick of sense and for those who claim it does, they might want to check their sense of reasoning.

You are not getting it. God is not selling defective cars in order to sell more expensive cars.

God gave the law in order for Israel to fail at the law in order to lead them to Christ. That is what the Bible says.

God gave the law in the garden in order for Adam and Eve to fail in order to bring about the Saviour of all mankind.

Mankind is eating of the tree God created and planted, the tree of the knowledge of evil and good. Both fruits grow on the same tree. In order to know good one must experience evil or one has nothing to base the good on.

Not one human is going to accuse God of wrong doing because He created them flesh and soulish when the end result is going to be salvation from sin and death and glorious incorruption and immortality.
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:23 AM
 
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You know, at first I was wondering about this Christianity forum, but now, I think we got something here... hehe
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:40 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,564 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Actually it does not. It does not call Christ the last human as opposed to calling Adam the first human.
Are you going to ignore scripture now? Here it is again, for you to read. Break it down, Greek word for Greek word,,,

The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

How many 'men' were there?



Quote:
The Concordant Literal got it perfectly right on the target.
You cannot take the same Greek word, and translate it 2 different ways within the same verse. Young did this for his own doctrinal support, as he did with all the scriptures.

Quote:
If you are going to play wordsmith and say "Adam" means "human" does it make sense to say "The first human human" No.
Man, not human. I only used the word human to designate the groups within the parameters of the 2 designated men God formed personally. Anyone who thinks a man who lived 6000--10000 years ago as being the 'first human' to have ever lived is delusional. Sorry, but the facts CLEARLY dispute this claim. So, if it is NOT a literal reading, then you must take the WHOLE counsel of the Word and really seek WHO and WHAT was formed, the time-lines-and the end result. Sciotamicks is absolutely right. This was talking about covenants, and God's own people. Not the ENTIRE human race on the planet.



Quote:
Again, it calls Adam the first human. It does not call Christ "the last human."
It calls Adam the first man,,,not human. What IS man?



Quote:
I am the expert.
Yea,,,ok.

Quote:
We know for a fact that Christ was not the last human. He was the last Adam.
I know for a fact Jesus was the last 'man' MADE personally by God. He has only made 2 men,,,EVER. Adam, and Jesus. No other.

Quote:
Adam was the first Adam
Man was the first Adam.

Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:45-47 CLV (45) If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also.
Thus it is written also, The first human, Adam, "became a
living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit." (46) But not first the
spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." (47) The first human was
out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven."
Again, the CLV is showing it's true colors as being of an corrupt doctrine. You cannot take the same word,,anthrōpos,,and apply it 2 ways within the same verse. It is rediculous to say the least.


Quote:
Since Adam was the first human and Eve came out of the first human it proves Adam and Eve were the first humans.
Adam was the first complete man. Man=male AND female. Someone needs a lesson in Genesis. When the female was removed from Adam,,she was named WOMAN, because now Adam is not whole and complete. He must now marry, both spirit and body, to become ONE agaiin, thereby completing AGAIN what was made from the beginning. This is WHY there is NO marriage in heaven.. And this is why those who are single, and have not found their 'soul-mate' should be groomed to be content with being made WHOLE in Christ as the bride. Isn't ALL these verses now making sense?

Quote:
Notice Paul does not call Christ the last man but "the second Man."
Now Paul is not saying Christ was Abel.
Again, what are you reading? You even posted this from your bible(CLV)

Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:45-47 CLV (45) If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also.
Thus it is written also, The first human, Adam, "became a
living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."
Adam=man. Read it yourself.

Quote:
What he is showing is that there are just two Adams that are controlling the destiny of mankind.
No-one is controlling the destiny of mankind, except God.

Quote:
There is not going to be another Adam after Christ that will affect humanity. He is the last and final Adam.
He is the last Man made by God, period. Since He was perfect, then He has inherited the rightful throne that could have been Adam's had he not fallen. Why would there be any need for another man to be 'made' by God? It is FINISHED!

Adam was the first man. He was not the first human being.

Quote:
Now who is the expert? I am. You are not.
It is only a matter of opinion, Mr. Expert.
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Old 01-18-2011, 08:52 AM
 
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HotinAz...Do you really think he meant controlling every decision of man? He obviously meant determining the future of mankind and there is alot of truth to that. I got the message loud and clear Eusebius.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:05 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,718,677 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
God gave the law in order for Israel to fail...That is what the Bible says.
Quote:
God gave the law in the garden in order for Adam and Eve to fail...
Quote:
Not one human is going to accuse God of wrong doing because He created them flesh and soulish when the end result is going to be salvation from sin and death and glorious incorruption and immortality.
Just k eep reading out the isolated portions of your post and if you CAN'T see the huge, gaping, flaw in this kind of setup/thinking, I can't help you. Seems like your god is into experimenting on puppets to prove some stupid point OR that is just how mankind has utterly misinterpreted him and wrote a book (the bible) as evidence of their silliness.

'Sin and death' needed NOT be if the author did a better job.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:08 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,444,857 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Actually it does not. It does not call Christ the last human as opposed to calling Adam the first human.
Quote:
Hot replied:
Are you going to ignore scripture now? Here it is again, for you to read. Break it down, Greek word for Greek word,,,

The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

How many 'men' were there?
Two men, The first man, Adam and a second man, Christ.

It does not say, the first man, Adam and the last man, Christ.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:39 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,564 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Two men, The first man, Adam and a second man, Christ.

It does not say, the first man, Adam and the last man, Christ.
You cannot say God is not going to make 'another' Adam, and then use this argument, otherwise you look like you are going in circles.

You said:

Quote:
There is not going to be another Adam after Christ that will affect humanity. He is the last and final Adam.
So, is Jesus the last Adam?

If so, He is the last man.

You are the one who needs to find the Spiritual nugget of what exactly a 'man' is,,not me. I understand it perfectly.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:41 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,564 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
HotinAz...Do you really think he meant controlling every decision of man? He obviously meant determining the future of mankind and there is alot of truth to that. I got the message loud and clear Eusebius.
huh?

I didn't say controlling ANY decision of man. But God is IN control, period. Always has been, always will be.
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:45 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,375,564 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
You are not getting it. God is not selling defective cars in order to sell more expensive cars.

God gave the law in order for Israel to fail at the law in order to lead them to Christ. That is what the Bible says.

God gave the law in the garden in order for Adam and Eve to fail in order to bring about the Saviour of all mankind.

Mankind is eating of the tree God created and planted, the tree of the knowledge of evil and good. Both fruits grow on the same tree. In order to know good one must experience evil or one has nothing to base the good on.

Not one human is going to accuse God of wrong doing because He created them flesh and soulish when the end result is going to be salvation from sin and death and glorious incorruption and immortality.
This sounds more like religion than anything. So, the temptation of Christ Jesus was not a test? So, Adam could NEVER have obeyed God and not eaten of the TOKOGAE? After all, Adam was IN the Garden of Eden, walking with God.

So, in order to KNOW good, one must experience evil? Really? Nothing can be based upon good without evil? Interesting analogy, but WAY off the mark.

God IS good. So God IS evil? Is this what you are saying? Or am I not understanding this explaination?
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Old 01-18-2011, 09:52 AM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,444,857 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
You cannot say God is not going to make 'another' Adam, and then use this argument, otherwise you look like you are going in circles.
The fact is, Paul did not say Jesus is the last human. He said He is the SECOND Adam.

Stick with the Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 CLV (45) If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also.
Thus it is written also, The first human, Adam, "became a
living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit." (46) But not first the
spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." (47) The first human was
out of the earth, soilish; the second Man is the Lord out of heaven."

We have
  • the first human, Adam
  • the last Adam
Then we have
  • the first human
  • the second Human



Quote:
So, is Jesus the last Adam?
If so, He is the last man.
No, it just says Jesus is the second human and last Adam.
There will not be another Adam by which all humanity are neutral recipients of what another Adam does.

Quote:
You are the one who needs to find the Spiritual nugget of what exactly a 'man' is,,not me. I understand it perfectly.
You should first learn what "first" and "second" mean and "first human" and "last Adam" mean. Otherwise your understanding is imperfect.
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