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Old 01-19-2011, 05:58 PM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,692,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post


Not really. Paul said if there is no resurrection our faith is in vain. If we are already with the Lord when we die why is our faith in vain and we PERISH if there is no resurrection?

Finn, give up these Platonistic errors.
Paul said if Christ wasn't resurrected than our faith is in vain.

1 Cor 15:14 '...and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

The meaning being that if Christ had not been resurrected, then He had lied about everything, and there was no salvation, and no hope after death.

But Christ was resurrected and there is salvation for those who believe.

The soul and human spirit of the believer enter into the presence of the Lord at the moment of physical death and await the resurrection of the body.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero 7 View Post

* = unless you are lazarus or a person that rose out of his/her grave after the crucifixion, then you die twice.
That man dies once and then the judgment is a general rule of thumb regarding man. But obviously there have been people who have been resuscitated only to die again.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:33 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,456,138 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius


Not really. Paul said if there is no resurrection our faith is in vain. If we are already with the Lord when we die why is our faith in vain and we PERISH if there is no resurrection?

Finn, give up these Platonistic errors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Paul said if Christ wasn't resurrected than our faith is in vain.

1 Cor 15:14 '...and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.

The meaning being that if Christ had not been resurrected, then He had lied about everything, and there was no salvation, and no hope after death.

But Christ was resurrected and there is salvation for those who believe.

The soul and human spirit of the believer enter into the presence of the Lord at the moment of physical death and await the resurrection of the body.
Hi Mike,
Please take a look at this verse:

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

There were some among the Corinthians who were saying there is no resurrection of the dead. They weren't saying Jesus didn't resurrect from the dead but just that there is no resurrection of the dead.

If there is no resurrection of the dead Paul argues that therefore Christ didn't rise from the dead. But He did so there is a resurrection of the dead.


Why would their and our faith be in vain if Christ did not rise from the dead? It would prove that we won't rise from the dead.

If we are in heaven with Christ and we don't rise from the dead our faith is in vain and we perish.

I realize it means nothing to you that your last paragraph above reeks of Platonism and is so unscriptural that I am amazed that someone like you who takes so much pride in sticking closely with the Scriptures that you would say such things.

Peace,
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:50 PM
 
20,326 posts, read 15,692,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Hi Mike,
Please take a look at this verse:

1Co 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

There were some among the Corinthians who were saying there is no resurrection of the dead. They weren't saying Jesus didn't resurrect from the dead but just that there is no resurrection of the dead.

If there is no resurrection of the dead Paul argues that therefore Christ didn't rise from the dead. But He did so there is a resurrection of the dead.


Why would their and our faith be in vain if Christ did not rise from the dead? It would prove that we won't rise from the dead.

If we are in heaven with Christ and we don't rise from the dead our faith is in vain and we perish.

I realize it means nothing to you that your last paragraph above reeks of Platonism and is so unscriptural that I am amazed that someone like you who takes so much pride in sticking closely with the Scriptures that you would say such things.

Peace,
Everything said in that post and my other posts on this thread is completely scriptural and is orthodox fundamental doctrine. Fundamentalism realizes that the believer enters immediately into the presence of God at the moment of death.

Again, if Christ had not been resurrected as He said He would be, then He would have been a liar. and nothing He said concerning salvation would have been true. There would be no life after death, including a resurrection of the body.

My posts are clear and need not be repeated. Since you reject fundamentalism, you will reject the fact that to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord-immediately.
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:55 PM
 
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Mike, Give me a verse that says when one dies their spirit and their soul goes immediately to heaven to the Lord's presence and later are joined with their body.
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Mike, Give me a verse that says when one dies their spirit and their soul goes immediately to heaven to the Lord's presence and later are joined with their body.
I already gave in an earlier post on this thread two verses from Revelation that shows the souls of believers in heaven. Refer back to them. As a matter of fact, read all of my posts on this thread.

I've said what I have to say concerning this. Do your debating with someone else.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:49 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Everything said in that post and my other posts on this thread is completely scriptural and is orthodox fundamental doctrine.
Was there ever any question about that? You're quite astounding in your certainty about things.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:29 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
most people here would know that i beleive in re-incarnation and karma,that the soul is eternal and immortal,and that in time every living entity will return home,back to the spiritual world where existence is pure transcendental bliss and knowledge.Moderator cut: see sticky,,,,,,,
Although I don't believe in reincarnation, I do believe in a sort of karma, more in line with retribution. "vengeance is mine saith the Lord". There are different beliefs about the soul but I believe all of us, fleshly body, soul and spirit will continue on after this life. We will in a sense, all return home like you said, back to the spiritual world from whence we came.

Quote:
If this is our only life ,then why wouldnt God give everyone the same chance??????.
Exactly, this is not our only life. This life is a minuscule puff of smoke, nothingness compared to what our real spiritual life will be like.

Quote:
i'll try explain it a bit more to what i mean----there are those who suffer in this life ,some immensily more than others,and would like to know from your perspective what is the reason for this?
Yes, there are those who suffer tremendously in this life and it's not fair. Not in our eyes anyway. There is a higher purpose, one which we are not aware of at this time. Doesn't make it any better, but we know from what the Bible tells us that everyone will experience the same things in the next life, it will be grand for all of us eventually.

Quote:
also,when a person dies,do they enter the spiritual realm straight away wether they were good or bad people in their life,Moderator cut: see sticky
None of us can say for sure what happens when we die, there are conflicting things in the Bible about it. Fundamentalists believe that we go immediately to heaven or that other place, while most Universalists believe we remain dead until the resurrection. I can only base my belief on personal experience, and my experience (I had a near death experience) tells me that when we die we die.....we rest without knowledge of anything until the resurrection, and it will seem as though no time has passed when we are resurrected. I want to believe that we immediately go to be with the Lord but that's not what my experience tells me.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Mike, Give me a verse that says when one dies their spirit and their soul goes immediately to heaven to the Lord's presence and later are joined with their body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I already gave in an earlier post on this thread two verses from Revelation that shows the souls of believers in heaven. Refer back to them. As a matter of fact, read all of my posts on this thread.

I've said what I have to say concerning this. Do your debating with someone else.
Now Mike, that wasn't very nice to say. Are you having a bad day?

Here is the verse:
Rev 6:9 "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar
the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the
testimony which they held:"

Nothing said about heaven. And nothing said that their spirits are with their souls.

Also, Revelation is looking into the future "in the day of the Lord" not "on the Lord's day." So they aint even there yet bubba.

Not only that, the bible says "the soul is in the blood." The altar was where they slew the animal sacrifices and the blood would go under the altar. In the future these believers will be sacrificed on the altar and their blood will go under the altar. And just like Abel's blood cried out from the ground so the saint's blood will cry out from under the altar.

Tell me Mike, these souls:
Act 27:37 And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls.
Were they disembodied souls walking around the ship Paul was on?
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:21 AM
 
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By the way, Mike, do you really think Abel's blood sprouted a mouth so it could cry from the ground?
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