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View Poll Results: Which type are you? Read the choices on OP. Thx
Type 1A 0 0%
Type 1B 0 0%
Type 2A 9 81.82%
Type 2B 2 18.18%
Voters: 11. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-20-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Katonah, NY
21,199 posts, read 20,252,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
I started this poll with the belief in two correct answers

Read it again and see what you think. Also I did say what the main reason is - to encourage loving our brothers and sisters (disciples of Christ).
My only point is that the way you phrased things - it was very obvious which answers you deemed correct and which answers people should not vote for or which they should feel bad about themselves if they did vote for them. It just seems to be a very biased poll.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:11 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,592,446 times
Reputation: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewdrop93 View Post
My only point is that the way you phrased things - it was very obvious which answers you deemed correct and which answers people should not vote for or which they should feel bad about themselves if they did vote for them. It just seems to be a very biased poll.
Do you think it's unproductive or productive for all of us?

...and I'm sorry if it came accross as biased. I think there are two correct answers though, really.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,918,216 times
Reputation: 624
I am sorry but I have been all 4 options and am currently just focused on Christ. I repent regularly even when not sure and I know everyone sins even the most enlightened. I care about everyone even those I hate, yes I hate everyone and love everyone just as God hates everyone and loves everyone. I love my youngest son, 8 years old, but I hate that he is a spoiled brat which could be said of all 4 of my sons. I love my of 23 years but hate that she is so accepting of everyone even those that abuse her. Everyone has a good side and a bad side and we have to nurture the good to kill the bad and we must recognize the bad and help them recognize what needs work. I am an evil man but I am full of love like Jesus said let your answers be yes yes or no no there is no inbetween, we need to realize this and promote the good and destroy the bad.

I know I probably didnt answer the question like everyone would like but this is my attempt.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:43 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,226,652 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
The fact is that the Bible says that to receive Eternal Life and Immortality (Essentially Salvation) is BASED on Works! Don't believe it? - let me show you:

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his WORKS (deeds):
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Right there in your own Bible.

What how the mind of man spin itself out of those verses.
I don't disagree with you very often, but this time i think that i do, at least in part.

Salvation is not based on our works, or else we would be able to boast. I believe you are misinterpreting what Paul meant in the words you quoted above.

If Paul meant to teach in those words that our salvation was based on our own works, then he would be contradicting so many other things he said to the contrary.

When Paul says that God will render unto every man according to their works, i believe this is to be understood in light of the fact that salvation has already been accomplished for all in Christ, but that we will all receive punishment and reward based on our own works, which in the end are ultimately either the works of Christ within us, or the works of the devil. We all have an angel and a devil whispering in our ears, and we all heed one or the other whenever we do anything. And if we do anything truly good and worthy of merit, the truth is that it is only because God is working within us to will and do what pleases him.

Those who seek "the life of the age(s)" and "immortality", (they are not the same thing by the way) will be the glory and the honor and they will have the life of the age(s), that much is certain, but that is not to say that those who never seek after such thins in this life will not come to seek them in another life, after the resurrection for instance.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:55 PM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,592,446 times
Reputation: 297
Robin,

Well thanks brother. I have absolutely 0% hate for any human being created in God's image. Not saying I don't get your point, because I have to believe you accually don't "hate" anyone but are saying that you hate the sin. Right? Because that's the way God sees it. And that's why Christ came, to destroy those works of the Devil.

If your part of a football team, when you get on the field what is your goal? To score points right? Well, if your coach is telling you "no need to score this time fellas, just do the best you can", you might want to find a different team because there's no way your going to win. And no, don't say that your coach tells you to just sit on the sideline. But if you get on the field and think, were going to score every time we get the ball and that is our goal, you'll be doing your job and that's how you win. That's the kind of teacher Christ is. That's why he said to be perfect just as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Of course he know's were not going to be perfect...lol (but yet "complete"). But even ungodly people love people who love them. If you don't love those who don't love you, how are you any different than the world? We cannot do it on our own and there is only one way to recieve God's help and annointing to be his witnessess. We must, especially in the days were living in now, have an earnest desire to cry out to God for HIS Holiness. And call it whatever you want, but prayer, among other things we must do are works. I know I just can't stop talking about prayer but this example is so huge in victory. Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane sweating drops of blood praying while the other disciples put the keys in thier pocket and went to sleep. Think about that.

We must do whatever we must do to let God use us to save the lost and that is why Jesus stressed the importance of obedience so much. It's not about us.

Last edited by O-Ducky; 01-20-2011 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,653,679 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I don't disagree with you very often, but this time i think that i do, at least in part.

Salvation is not based on our works, or else we would be able to boast. I believe you are misinterpreting what Paul meant in the words you quoted above.

If Paul meant to teach in those words that our salvation was based on our own works, then he would be contradicting so many other things he said to the contrary.

When Paul says that God will render unto every man according to their works, i believe this is to be understood in light of the fact that salvation has already been accomplished for all in Christ, but that we will all receive punishment and reward based on our own works, which in the end are ultimately either the works of Christ within us, or the works of the devil. We all have an angel and a devil whispering in our ears, and we all heed one or the other whenever we do anything. And if we do anything truly good and worthy of merit, the truth is that it is only because God is working within us to will and do what pleases him.

Those who seek "the life of the age(s)" and "immortality", (they are not the same thing by the way) will be the glory and the honor and they will have the life of the age(s), that much is certain, but that is not to say that those who never seek after such thins in this life will not come to seek them in another life, after the resurrection for instance.
I never said that salvation or that Paul was saying that salvation was based on OUR works. I think that is where you misunderstood me. But I do believe and indeed confident that Paul is indeed teaching that we are saved by works. But again, now OUR Works. I believe that Jesus Christ has a copyright on GOOD Works (Do unto others as you would have done unto you). So if I do GOOD Works then I can't boast because those works are NOT my works. When you understand it this way you can see that it doesn't contradict any scriptures. In fact you can then see why Paul had to qualify some things he stated such as this:

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

If Paul would have left that bolded part out then he would have contradicted the claim he made that Eternal Life and Immortality would be rendered based on works. So by Paul's clarification in Rom 4:1 we can see that Paul is setting up the context for discussing that those works of Abraham pertaining to the flesh.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:00 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,226,652 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
I never said that salvation or that Paul was saying that salvation was based on OUR works. I think that is where you misunderstood me. But I do believe and indeed confident that Paul is indeed teaching that we are saved by works. But again, now OUR Works. I believe that Jesus Christ has a copyright on GOOD Works (Do unto others as you would have done unto you). So if I do GOOD Works then I can't boast because those works are NOT my works. When you understand it this way you can see that it doesn't contradict any scriptures. In fact you can then see why Paul had to qualify some things he stated such as this:

Rom 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

If Paul would have left that bolded part out then he would have contradicted the claim he made that Eternal Life and Immortality would be rendered based on works. So by Paul's clarification in Rom 4:1 we can see that Paul is setting up the context for discussing that those works of Abraham pertaining to the flesh.

I see ... Then i guess i agree with you after all. Especially on the part that Christ has the copyright on good works.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,918,216 times
Reputation: 624
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Ducky View Post
Robin,

Well thanks brother. I have absolutely 0% hate for any human being created in God's image. Not saying I don't get your point, because I have to believe you accually don't "hate" anyone but are saying that you hate the sin. Right? Because that's the way God sees it. And that's why Christ came, to destroy those works of the Devil.

If your part of a football team, when you get on the field what is your goal? To score points right? Well, if your coach is telling you "no need to score this time fellas, just do the best you can", you might want to find a different team because there's no way your going to win. And no, don't say that your coach tells you to just sit on the sideline. But if you get on the field and think, were going to score every time we get the ball and that is our goal, you'll be doing your job and that's how you win. That's the kind of teacher Christ is. That's why he said to be perfect just as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Of course he know's were not going to be perfect...lol. But even ungodly people love people who love them. If you don't love those who don't love you, how are you any different than the world? We cannot do it on our own and there is only one way to recieve God's help and annointing to be his witnessess. We must, especially in the days were living in now, have an earnest desire to cry out to God for HIS Holiness. And call it whatever you want, but prayer, among other things we must do are works. I know I just can't stop talking about prayer but this example is so huge in victory. Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane sweating drops of blood praying while the other disciples put the keys in thier pocket and went to sleep. Think about that.

We must do whatever we must do to let God use us to save the lost and that is why Jesus stressed the importance of obedience so much. It's not about us.
You get my point but many will not and the only reason I answered the way I did is because it is the way the Lord answers.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,653,679 times
Reputation: 575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
I see ... Then i guess i agree with you after all. Especially on the part that Christ has the copyright on good works.
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Old 01-21-2011, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,653,679 times
Reputation: 575
Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


Many people don't get that verse. That word Justified means to be made innoncent. In other words it is saying that by works and Faith is one made INNOCENT and not by just Faith alone. Think about that. If someone preaches that all we need is Faith then they are saying all we need is belief (which then we still would NOT be Innocent). It takes the ADDITION of works to then be made Innocent.
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