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Old 01-29-2011, 09:32 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,589,052 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
We're again dragging God down to our level, when we limit this discussion to our understanding. Remember, the hand of God deliberately subjected His creation to this process of darkness and bondage, and we are told that He subjected it in hope, indicating His desired end. (Rom 8:20)

We must understand that God was, in effect, selling us under bondage to sin. (Romans 7:14) And to what end? That He might buy us back again. (Eph 1:14)

 
Old 01-29-2011, 09:45 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
John 3:16 'For God so loved the world that He gave His uniquely born Son, that whoever believes in Him, should not perish but have eternal life.

Voice-Middle
The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action
upon himself (reflexive action) or for his own benefit. E.g.,
"The boy groomed himself." Many verbs which occur only in
middle voice forms are translated in English as having an
active sense; these are called "deponent" verbs, and do not
comply with the normal requirements for the middle voice.
See that little word 'or'?

Voice-Middle
The middle voice indicates the subject performing an action
upon himself
(reflexive action) or for his own benefit.E.g.,
"The boy groomed himself." Many verbs which occur only in
middle voice forms are translated in English as having an
active sense; these are called "deponent" verbs, and do not
comply with the normal requirements for the middle voice


This voice means that the SUBJECT initiates the action and participates in the results of the action. The middle voice indicates the subject performs an action upon himself or herself (reflexive action) or for their own benefit. E.g., “The boy groomed himself.” "Reflexive" - of, relating to, or constituting an action (as in “he perjured himself”) directed back on the agent or the grammatical subject - often translated with words like "-self" (himself, herself, themselves, etc).
Greek Quick Reference Guide

Whoever does not believe in Christ is responsible for his own destruction.

The opposite of eternal life is eternal destruction. Apollumi- not cessation of existence but utter ruin and eternal uselessness away from the presence of the Lord.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 09:51 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
We're again dragging God down to our level, when we limit this discussion to our understanding. Remember, the hand of God deliberately subjected His creation to this process of darkness and bondage, and we are told that He subjected it in hope, indicating His desired end. (Rom 8:20)

We must understand that God was, in effect, selling us under bondage to sin. (Romans 7:14) And to what end? That He might buy us back again. (Eph 1:14)
Answer the questions! Don't side step them, don't dance around them. Answer them.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,544 posts, read 11,589,052 times
Reputation: 4469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Answer the questions! Don't side step them, don't dance around them. Answer them.
I'm not in the idol building business - let's keep Him on the throne.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 12:26 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
We're again dragging God down to our level, when we limit this discussion to our understanding. Remember, the hand of God deliberately subjected His creation to this process of darkness and bondage, and we are told that He subjected it in hope, indicating His desired end. (Rom 8:20)

We must understand that God was, in effect, selling us under bondage to sin. (Romans 7:14) And to what end? That He might buy us back again. (Eph 1:14)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Answer the questions! Don't side step them, don't dance around them. Answer them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I'm not in the idol building business - let's keep Him on the throne.
Will any among you who are reading this and who deny man's free will and God's permissive will answer the questions in a straight forward manner? They only require simple 'yes' or 'no' answers. Surely this is not too difficult a task?
 
Old 01-29-2011, 03:58 PM
 
18,033 posts, read 8,973,708 times
Reputation: 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Will any among you who are reading this and who deny man's free will and God's permissive will answer the questions in a straight forward manner?
They only require simple 'yes' or 'no' answers. Surely this is not too difficult a task?
"Have you ever been caught beating your wife?"

It’s an ambiguous question, which does not allow for any interpretation.

You either have been caught or have not been caught; but it is not a matter of whether, "You do, or don’t."

If you are under his command, than he is responsible.
However, you will be held accountable.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 04:38 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
We're again dragging God down to our level, when we limit this discussion to our understanding. Remember, the hand of God deliberately subjected His creation to this process of darkness and bondage, and we are told that He subjected it in hope, indicating His desired end. (Rom 8:20)

We must understand that God was, in effect, selling us under bondage to sin. (Romans 7:14) And to what end? That He might buy us back again. (Eph 1:14)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Answer the questions! Don't side step them, don't dance around them. Answer them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
I'm not in the idol building business - let's keep Him on the throne.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Will any among you who are reading this and who deny man's free will and God's permissive will answer the questions in a straight forward manner? They only require simple 'yes' or 'no' answers. Surely this is not too difficult a task?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
"Have you ever been caught beating your wife?"

It’s an ambiguous question, which does not allow for any interpretation.

You either have been caught or have not been caught; but it is not a matter of whether, "You do, or don’t."

If you are under his command, than he is responsible.
However, you will be held accountable.
God is not responsible for man's disobedience.

Can those who deny the permissive will of God and the free will of man, give a simple answer to these simple questions. Contrary to what the second poster (Jerwade) claims, there's nothing ambiguous about them. They are straight forward and clear. Easily answered. But the poster is right about one thing. There is no room for interpretation. They require direct and honest answers.

1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
 
Old 01-29-2011, 04:50 PM
 
18,033 posts, read 8,973,708 times
Reputation: 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
God is not responsible for man's disobedience.
That's like saying: "God is not responsible for creation."

Or for that which exists, collectively?
 
Old 01-29-2011, 05:01 PM
 
20,353 posts, read 15,737,455 times
Reputation: 7507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
That's like saying: "God is not responsible for creation."

Or for that which exists, collectively?
No it's not. God is not responsible for man's disobedience.

Answer the questions.

1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
 
Old 01-29-2011, 05:09 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,218,993 times
Reputation: 892
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No it's not. God is not responsible for man's disobedience.

Answer the questions.

1.) Did God command man not to murder?

2.) Do men murder anyway?

3.) If men do murder anyway, despite the commandment from God that men are not to murder, does God then permit murder to occur against His stated command?
"One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?""

Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 01-29-2011 at 06:15 PM..
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