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Old 01-23-2011, 07:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Simple. Those wills combined lead to grace.

Imagine the world as a huge maze.
We are somewhere in that maze and are free to choose to take any route we like. That's our free will.
But that free will of chosing the route is limited by the layout of the maze.

And one by one His sheep will find the exit of the maze.
Those who don't will be search for by the Good Shepherd.
Great analogy, WhiteWings.

 
Old 01-23-2011, 07:49 PM
 
37,494 posts, read 25,224,572 times
Reputation: 5854
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Simple. Those wills combined lead to grace.

Imagine the world as a huge maze.
We are somewhere in that maze and are free to choose to take any route we like. That's our free will.
But that free will of chosing the route is limited by the layout of the maze.

And one by one His sheep will find the exit of the maze.
Those who don't will be search for by the Good Shepherd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
Great analogy, WhiteWings.
 
Old 01-23-2011, 08:10 PM
 
17,691 posts, read 8,866,529 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
You're right. That is why being sanctified is the process of our will becoming one with God's will. No doubt about that. The earthly/carnal nature is indeed at enmity with God. The scriptures do not teach otherwise. In fact, this sorrowful world proves that billions of personal and opposing wills creates chaos. That's why there is war and hatred and fighting. But when God is all in all, and all are One, we won't have this problem any longer. And it is only because of our flesh that we have these desires that cry out for "freedom" - thus proving that being lowered into the realm of mortality (born in Adam) is indeed a curse. There is only one way out of the mortal body - through death. So much for free will! I do thank God for the gift of faith, otherwise I'd be without hope (lost).
"Two inflectional points of an apparent path; life and death."

 
Old 01-23-2011, 09:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
What i see is the spirit warning Paul through the other apostles concerning his fate should he God to Jerusalem ...

That does not mean that God did not want him to Go there, as a matter of fact God always knew that Paul would go there ... What we have here is a testament to the power of God to work all things out for the best.

The fact of the matter is, Paul wrote Colossians, Philemon, Ephesians and Philippians while in prison.

And because of his own weakness which led him to go to Jerusalem after which he was imprisoned, Paul was inspired to write many things he otherwise might not ever have written.

EVERYTHING happens for a reason, and God had a perfectly good reason for allowing Paul to go to Jerusalem ... Just like he had a perfectly good reason for letting Adam eat the fruit of knowledge.

The best example of this is Jonah ... Jonah resisted God, and to what effect? Had Jonah not resisted God, then he would never have sailed on the stormy sea and he never would have been thrown over board and he never would have been swallowed by the fish and spat out on the shores of Nineveh ... That is the very thing that caused the people of Nineveh to repent, the miracle of seeing Jonah carried to shore in the belly of a fish and brought back to life in order that he might prophecy to Nineveh ... It all worked out according to the will of God.

You cant escape the plan of God, what is otherwise known as fate, the more you try to resist, the more you cause it to happen in spite of yourself.

God does not make mistakes, God is never surprised, and nothing is outside of the realm of Gods influence.

The only reason why many people do not understand this is because it is part of Gods plan that many should be temporarily deceived.
In Acts 21:3-4 The Holy Spirit first warns Paul not to go to Jerusalem. Starting at verse 4 'And after looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.'

Of course God knew that Paul would disobey Him on the matter, and of course God allowed Paul to go. And of course God used Paul's disobedience to His own ends. The fact of the matter is that God had warned Paul not to go. Had Paul obeyed, Things would have worked out differently still in accordance with God's will. But He permitted Paul to go even though it was not His desire that Paul do so.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,475 posts, read 31,862,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
In Acts 21:3-4 The Holy Spirit first warns Paul not to go to Jerusalem. Starting at verse 4 'And after looking up the disciples, we stayed there seven days; and they kept telling Paul through the Spirit not to set foot in Jerusalem.'

Of course God knew that Paul would disobey Him on the matter, and of course God allowed Paul to go. And of course God used Paul's disobedience to His own ends. The fact of the matter is that God had warned Paul not to go. Had Paul obeyed, Things would have worked out differently still in accordance with God's will. But He permitted Paul to go even though it was not His desire that Paul do so.
Indeed. It is a good example of God's permissive will.

It reminds me of a GPS device, which will tell you to turn right, but you don't listen and go straight instead. The computer will accept your refusal to follow simple instruction, and then it will re-compute the route based on the fact that you missed a turn. God works the same way. He instructs us, and permits us to ignore His command, and things still work out. But of course if you are not saved and continue to reject salvation until your death, then there is a big problemm because you rejected Him too many times and after death it is too late.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 01-24-2011 at 07:52 AM..
 
Old 01-24-2011, 08:07 AM
 
Location: RV Park
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Until we reach the end and look back, we will argue over whose will is being accomplished - I'm betting that He uses everything (rebellion, wickedness, etc) to accomplish His perfect plan, as He is the only wise God.

We're making Him out to be equal with man, and that's a very bad thing.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 09:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Until we reach the end and look back, we will argue over whose will is being accomplished - I'm betting that He uses everything (rebellion, wickedness, etc) to accomplish His perfect plan, as He is the only wise God.

We're making Him out to be equal with man, and that's a very bad thing.
Recognizing that God has given man free will is not making God out to be equal with man.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 09:22 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,550,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Recognizing that God has given man free will is not making God out to be equal with man.
Maybe or maybe not, but to see Him other than what He is is (imo) blasphemous - God alone has the attribute of infinitude - not limited in any aspect of His being - His power, wisdom, love, etc. are without limit, which simply means that He loves His creation more than we can imagine.

He knows us (our frame, DNA, etc) and remembers that we are dust. We should gain more understanding toward our fellow man in the area of how some are able to grasp salvation and others aren't, but that's another sermon for another Sunday.

He knows how to accomplish His plan - contrary to popular culture, we can put our faith in His ability to handle it - He's a Big Boy.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 10:38 AM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Maybe or maybe not, but to see Him other than what He is is (imo) blasphemous - God alone has the attribute of infinitude - not limited in any aspect of His being - His power, wisdom, love, etc. are without limit, which simply means that He loves His creation more than we can imagine.

He knows us (our frame, DNA, etc) and remembers that we are dust. We should gain more understanding toward our fellow man in the area of how some are able to grasp salvation and others aren't, but that's another sermon for another Sunday.

He knows how to accomplish His plan - contrary to popular culture, we can put our faith in His ability to handle it - He's a Big Boy.
Actually I consider describing God in such terms as 'He's a Big Boy' or 'He's the man upstairs', as blasphemous. He is eternal and infinite Almighty God. King of heaven and earth. He is not a 'big boy' or 'the man upstairs'.
 
Old 01-24-2011, 10:48 AM
 
351 posts, read 283,083 times
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Interesting thread. For me I believe we have no "free will We have a will but it is a caused choice so it is not free.

Mike, in 2Peter 3:9 it say God is NOT willing that any be lost. Which of your three wills is that one. (not trying to be rude it is a legitimate quesrtion.)

In Roman 9 the question is asked who has resisted his will( should be who has resisted his intentions), because everyone has resisted his will, this is part of God's plan to show us how we are nothing without him, but no one has resisted his intention which is to save all his children.

God's plan is working exactly how it is supposed to. He has seen the ending before the begining so he knows all the choices we will make. If they are already known they can not be any other choice or God would be mistaken.

In Isaiah 55:11 So is My word that goeth out of My mouth, It turneth not back unto Me empty, But hath done that which I desired, And prosperously effected that [for] which I sent it.

He says that his Word(Christ is the Word of God) will not go out of His mouth and come back empty but will accomplich all it was sent to do. Christ was sent to SAVE THE WORLD. Christ will do all his Father sent him to do.

Alway remember He is the Potter we are the clay. Clay does not question he who formed it. O Man who are you to question God? Clay does not have free will.
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