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Old 01-23-2011, 05:29 PM
 
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If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you should understand that man certainly has free will. The purpose of this post is simply to provide the following link to a paper which distinguishes between the Philosophical grounds upon which the God given free will of man is dismissed by those who deny its existence, and a real world understanding of man's free will. What the Bible says about man's free will and what those who approach the subject of free will from a philosophical standpoint think about it are two entirely different things. It is a given that those who deny man's free will shall most likely continue to do so, but...... hope springs eternal. Therefore, without any further adieu, http://god-defined.com/philosophy/FreeWill.pdf
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Old 01-24-2011, 04:46 PM
 
Location: RV Park
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And to defend the King:

Kingdom Bible Studies Savior of the World Series Part 4 Will Of Man
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Florida
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The salvation of the whole world is signed in and sealed with the precious blood of Jesus Christ -
"I Will Draw All Men Unto Me"
I Will Draw All Men Unto Me

(This article touches on why only few are now drawn)
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:47 PM
 
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Do you think God has free will, or just people?

If He doesn't have free will, what/who constrains him?

If He has free will, then it seems He can do whatever he wants.

If he has free will, and chooses NOT to do the things he would like to do, is He just choosing by His own free will not to exercise His free will to get what He desires?

If he has free will, and chooses NOT to do the things he would like to do, why not?

If He does not have free will, is it because He chose not to have free will.....by His own free will.
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:57 PM
 
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The Myth of Free Will exposed:

The Myth of Free Will - Part A
The Myth of Free Will - Part B
The Myth of Free Will - Part C
The Myth of Free Will - Part D


Really excellent series. Read it with an open mind.

The ironic thing about these discussions is that those who believe they have a free independent will free from any influence or cause cannot change their belief precisely because they do not have a free will! LOL, God has pulled a fast one on us all.
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Old 01-24-2011, 09:09 PM
 
20,330 posts, read 15,705,873 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The Myth of Free Will exposed:

The Myth of Free Will - Part A
The Myth of Free Will - Part B
The Myth of Free Will - Part C
The Myth of Free Will - Part D


Really excellent series. Read it with an open mind.

The ironic thing about these discussions is that those who believe they have a free independent will free from any influence or cause cannot change their belief precisely because they do not have a free will! LOL, God has pulled a fast one on us all.
Read the article. Free will is a reality but it is not free from any influence or cause. That is the false asumption of those who apply philosophical concepts to free will rather than understanding free will from a real world perspective.
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Old 01-25-2011, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you should understand that man certainly has free will. The purpose of this post is simply to provide the following link to a paper which distinguishes between the Philosophical grounds upon which the God given free will of man is dismissed by those who deny its existence, and a real world understanding of man's free will. What the Bible says about man's free will and what those who approach the subject of free will from a philosophical standpoint think about it are two entirely different things. It is a given that those who deny man's free will shall most likely continue to do so, but...... hope springs eternal. Therefore, without any further adieu, http://god-defined.com/philosophy/FreeWill.pdf
A great understanding of FreeWill is here. An early writer:

CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you are a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, you should understand that man certainly has free will. The purpose of this post is simply to provide the following link to a paper which distinguishes between the Philosophical grounds upon which the God given free will of man is dismissed by those who deny its existence, and a real world understanding of man's free will. What the Bible says about man's free will and what those who approach the subject of free will from a philosophical standpoint think about it are two entirely different things. It is a given that those who deny man's free will shall most likely continue to do so, but...... hope springs eternal. Therefore, without any further adieu, http://god-defined.com/philosophy/FreeWill.pdf
Mike . . . you are correct in making these distinctions. But you are not correct in believing that belief in God is a choice that falls within our free will. What we believe about God is what we believe about God . . . no choosing about it. Any appearance of choice is fraudulent . . . either you do or you don't and you are not the one who makes it so. We can choose to intellectually proclaim all sorts of beliefs . . . but what we ACTUALLY truly believe deep in our inner souls has absolutely nothing to do with that intellectual choice. So the issue of free will is a non-starter with regard to belief in God.When you can HONESTLY proclaim that you can believe something you absolutely do not believe currently simply by choosing to do so then you will prove your point. Otherwise stop this ridiculous nonsense about choosing to believe.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:45 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Free will is a concept the ancient Jews understood well. Pagan influence around 500 BC crept in by Hellenistic occupation, with the premise that free will is moot.

Free Will in Judaism 101 - My Jewish Learning
Halakha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Laws had to be followed, and by their actions they were rewarded for their worship.

On the Nature of Free Will

Study up people....you are supposed to be an inward Jew!
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:14 PM
 
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I am currently studying intensely limited atonement vs unlimited atonement. While I cannot take one specific side (yet, if ever) I have learned that John 6:44 ""No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him..." severely limits the concept of free will in man in the sense that man cannot (probably because of his "total depravity"--the T in TULIP), of his own free will, choose to follow Christ. If the Holy Spirit does not draw him he is simply incapable of making that decision.

This simple Biblically-supported fact is well-supported with such verses as "the wind blows where it will" just as the HS travels where He will and draws whom He will, in conjunction with who the Father decided from the foundation of the universe who He would choose to draw to His Son. Romans 8:29 "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son..."
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