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Old 01-24-2011, 11:35 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
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See, I have come to this belief in the recent year.

Moderator cut: edit

But as they say, and as it is written:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever.

So it began. I walked down the path of fear of God Almighty, resting in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Over time, I then became angry at God. Angry because He was supposed to accept me as I was. So, I rebelled and went the path of darkness. HARD CORE! Everything from drugs, to stealing. From lusting after beautiful women to fornication. I went the way of evil itself. There was no turning back, although deep down I knew God was there, I DID NOT CARE. My love for Him was gone. If this was the best He could do, concerning the world, my life, people's lives who were faithful,,then I want NO PART of that God.

MANY years later, I started heeding the calling. I watched as my children were born, and my lovely wife stood by me through thick and thin. Even though I was evil, she was not. I put her through hell, emotionally, yet she still loved me and forgave me. Thankfully, I never betrayed our marriage vows.

After more time had passed, God started pulling me in. I don't know if it was the years passing, or that death was calling. About 10 years ago, I recommitted to God. I had no idea what I was doing, yet I knew the Spirit was speaking to me. I still did NOT trust the church. Nothing in them appealled to me, including the hypocritical suppossed Christians who went there. I knew I was recently brought back in, as the lost sheep, or prodical son, but I was not seeing these people as set apart. So I left the church scene. ALL of them, even to this day.

I then went on a journey, studing onlne, and learning Greek and Hebrew. I studied translations, and overall doctrines, from Genesis, to Revelation, to the after-life. I came into Universalism, ALL ON MY OWN. I had no idea what the doctrine even was, yet I knew that the words translated into English were wrong. I battled the hard core fundies, of most denominations. But they persisted, or rather the Spirit persisted, that not ALL CAN BE SAVED. We still have the choice. Even standing in front of the Judge of judges, we can still walk away, AND we can be SENT away.

This led me to study death. Not just of the flesh, because ALL flesh dies, from humans to animals. To plants, to fish. ALL die. I started reading the Word from a Spiritual standpoint, letting the Spirit do the talking. I began to understand Genesis a lot better, and have a pretty firm grasp what spiritual death is now, and what Adam was condemned to. The devil lied, period. It is the same lie, even to this day.

I began to realize that immortality is ONLY God's to give, and He alone gives it. "Let the dead bury the dead", still rings true today. Either you have life, or you don't. So, I rest in the fact that God alone is the Judge, and He alone gives Life to those who are His.

Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father. He is the Bridge to do this. Well, Jesus is King, as well as Savior. So we either submit wholly to Him, or we do not. He KNOWS who are His. There is no hiding from it. From the secret thoughts, to the open actions.

So yes, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, BUT,,,:

The fear of the LORD is the instruction for wisdom, And before honor comes humility.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Are we on our knees before the King? Is our hearts ever being transformed? Are we listening for instruction, or has the doctrines we reside in become our IDOLS?

Hmm.,,,

Last edited by june 7th; 01-24-2011 at 12:38 PM..
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:56 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,698 times
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Good stuff Hot...as we seem to have walked similar paths....
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:14 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Good stuff Hot...as we seem to have walked similar paths....
Thank you brother. The road has been long, with many tribulatios and trials. I am thankful He never gave up on me.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:24 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
[color=teal]Moderator cut: Orphaned
[/mod]


Moderator cut: deleted
Well, since I do not believe in 'luck/chance', except for slot machines,,,then this point is mute.

Quote:
Or was it God's choice of you all along?
Yes it was. He knows who are His, and who isn't. Who's YOUR father?

Quote:
It really plays to our ego when we think others will be excluded from God's favor. That is my point.
My 'ego' has nothing to do with it. That is MY point.

Last edited by june 7th; 01-24-2011 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:28 PM
 
3,577 posts, read 455,442 times
Reputation: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
See, I have come to this belief in the recent year.

Moderator cut: Orphaned
But as they say, and as it is written:

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever.

So it began. I walked down the path of fear of God Almighty, resting in my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Over time, I then became angry at God. Angry because He was supposed to accept me as I was. So, I rebelled and went the path of darkness. HARD CORE! Everything from drugs, to stealing. From lusting after beautiful women to fornication. I went the way of evil itself. There was no turning back, although deep down I knew God was there, I DID NOT CARE. My love for Him was gone. If this was the best He could do, concerning the world, my life, people's lives who were faithful,,then I want NO PART of that God.

MANY years later, I started heeding the calling. I watched as my children were born, and my lovely wife stood by me through thick and thin. Even though I was evil, she was not. I put her through hell, emotionally, yet she still loved me and forgave me. Thankfully, I never betrayed our marriage vows.

After more time had passed, God started pulling me in. I don't know if it was the years passing, or that death was calling. About 10 years ago, I recommitted to God. I had no idea what I was doing, yet I knew the Spirit was speaking to me. I still did NOT trust the church. Nothing in them appealled to me, including the hypocritical suppossed Christians who went there. I knew I was recently brought back in, as the lost sheep, or prodical son, but I was not seeing these people as set apart. So I left the church scene. ALL of them, even to this day.

I then went on a journey, studing onlne, and learning Greek and Hebrew. I studied translations, and overall doctrines, from Genesis, to Revelation, to the after-life. I came into Universalism, ALL ON MY OWN. I had no idea what the doctrine even was, yet I knew that the words translated into English were wrong. I battled the hard core fundies, of most denominations. But they persisted, or rather the Spirit persisted, that not ALL CAN BE SAVED. We still have the choice. Even standing in front of the Judge of judges, we can still walk away, AND we can be SENT away.

This led me to study death. Not just of the flesh, because ALL flesh dies, from humans to animals. To plants, to fish. ALL die. I started reading the Word from a Spiritual standpoint, letting the Spirit do the talking. I began to understand Genesis a lot better, and have a pretty firm grasp what spiritual death is now, and what Adam was condemned to. The devil lied, period. It is the same lie, even to this day.

I began to realize that immortality is ONLY God's to give, and He alone gives it. "Let the dead bury the dead", still rings true today. Either you have life, or you don't. So, I rest in the fact that God alone is the Judge, and He alone gives Life to those who are His.

Jesus came to reconcile us to the Father. He is the Bridge to do this. Well, Jesus is King, as well as Savior. So we either submit wholly to Him, or we do not. He KNOWS who are His. There is no hiding from it. From the secret thoughts, to the open actions.

So yes, the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom, BUT,,,:

The fear of the LORD is the instruction for wisdom, And before honor comes humility.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Are we on our knees before the King? Is our hearts ever being transformed? Are we listening for instruction, or has the doctrines we reside in become our IDOLS?

Hmm.,,,

You ask this ------ has the doctrines that we reside in become our IDOLS ----- heartsong questions why you access conditional immortality and not the other unfortunate guy who was killed before he saw the light, God sought you until you came, and were not killed or died before you made that decision..... it certainly seems to me that it is on topic
....

You seem to be saying that you only want those who believe in conditional immortality to post in this thread --- however under TOS any can post as long as they are not rude and are on topic (which is conditional immortality) ........

Last edited by june 7th; 01-24-2011 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,573,110 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
You ask this ------ has the doctrines that we reside in become our IDOLS ----- heartsong questions why you access conditional immortality and not the other unfortunate guy who was killed before he saw the light, God sought you until you came, and were not killed or died before you made that decision..... it certainly seems to me that it is on topic
....

You seem to be saying that you only want those who believe in conditional immortality to post in this thread --- however under TOS any can post as long as they are not rude and are on topic (which is conditional immortality) ........
Thank you for rewording my question, Meercat. I am amazed at how easily offended people can be. I was trying to make an illustration - not accusing HotinAz of having some character flaw.
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,289,698 times
Reputation: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Moderator cut: Orphaned
Only God has immortality, and His offering of immortality stems on one pre-requisite....belief in Christ....or else Paul would have never said while he was persecuted.....If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable....the white robe must come on while you are alive, in the flesh. No post mortem salvation....

Last edited by june 7th; 01-24-2011 at 12:52 PM..
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:39 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by meerkat2 View Post
You ask this ------ has the doctrines that we reside in become our IDOLS ----- heartsong questions why you access conditional immortality and not the other unfortunate guy who was killed before he saw the light, God sought you until you came, and were not killed or died before you made that decision..... it certainly seems to me that it is on topic
Moderator cut: deleted As far as someone who dies before he saw the Light? Shame on us for not sharing the good news with him. But, as I have said ALL along,,,God judges the hearts of men/women. Not us.


Quote:
You seem to be saying that you only want those who believe in conditional immortality to post in this thread --- however under TOS any can post as long as they are not rude and are on topic (which is conditional immortality) ........
As long as it doesn't involve calling other people names, or using subtle tactics of calling God out as our Judge. I am not afraid of your doctrine,,,at ALL. I will refute it all the day long, debate until I cannot debate any longer, and stand my ground, which is on the Rock of my salvation.

Moderator cut: deleted/orphaned

Last edited by june 7th; 01-24-2011 at 12:54 PM..
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,573,110 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Only God has immortality, and His offering of immortality stems on one pre-requisite....belief in Christ....or else Paul would have never said while he was persecuted.....If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable....the white robe must come on while you are alive, in the flesh. No post mortem salvation....

I disagree. What Paul seems to be saying is "what a shame it would be to suffer all this persecution for the name of Christ if this life is all there is". If this life is all there is, then why should we put up with people treating us like dung? Why not just go ahead and pay an eye for an eye if this life is all there is????

How does Paul's statement equate with your assertion that one must be saved before this natural body dies? I see no connection there.
However, our lives are an offering to God because we love him -- that is what I think Paul means. An offering in a similar way as Jesus' life was an offering for us!
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Old 01-24-2011, 12:47 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I disagree. What Paul seems to be saying is "what a shame it would be to suffer all this persecution for the name of Christ if this life is all there is". If this life is all there is, then why should we put up with people treating us like dung? Why not just go ahead and pay an eye for an eye if this life is all there is????

How does Paul's statement equate with your assertion that one must be saved before this natural body dies? I see no connection there. However, our lives are an offering to God because we love him -- that is what I think Paul means. An offering in a similar way as Jesus' life was an offering for us!
Quote:
If this life is all there is, then why should we put up with people treating us like dung?
So, it is a belief that 'all will be saved' that you let people treat you like dung?

For myself, and my beliefs, it is because Jesus told us that this would happen, if we fight for the Truth. It is called, picking up our crosses and following Him ALONE.

Quote:
Why not just go ahead and pay an eye for an eye if this life is all there is????
Most people do, which is why the 'love of many, has waxed COLD'.
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