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Old 01-26-2011, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Nashville, Tn
7,916 posts, read 16,397,088 times
Reputation: 5442

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I never post in the Christianity subforum because I'm an atheist but I happen to be a personal friend of June and have known her for nearly four years. I also think the OP is inappropriate because it suggests that June has something wrong with her that needs to be fixed and it's also just plain foolish. I know she's fair as a moderator and her lack of belief in God has had no impact whatsoever on the efforts that she puts into this forum. Like myself, June also has a number of Christian friends so there is no need for this "us versus them" attitude.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:37 AM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,444,975 times
Reputation: 3392
June got in late last night, and didn't have to opportunity to respond to much that has been said in this thread. --Just wanted to let people know that June will respond, a bit later on, once she has had a chance to get through all the pages of this thread. In the meantime, June didn't want anyone to think she was ignoring the OP.

Till later,

Take gentle care
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:57 PM
 
7,788 posts, read 10,444,975 times
Reputation: 3392
Default A (long winded) word from June:

June rarely posts in the "first person" (just a habit of mine) except when she really means "business" and wishes to make sure that people realize that it's the true "just June" that is posting. --That is not to imply that the third person posts are in anyway disengenious, it's just that I felt more inclined to post in frist person to this one.

As I see it, there are two issues that are being presented in this thread: 1) Why I have not somehow been converted as yet, despite my time on this forum and my moderating of it, and 2) The issue regarding why this forum has apparently descended into some degree of chaos.

First off, let me just say that I was asked to moderate this, along with the other two Religioin forums. I've been doing so since before the inception of the Christianity forum, and to be honest, I enjoy doing what I do. I do it to the best of my abililty, and in being a nonbeliever, I hopefully do it without any bias towards one denomination or another. It's a matter of applying the Terms of Service. I suppose I begin this post with this explanation, due to the following:

It is not, nor has it ever been my intent to "ruffle" anyone's feathers. I would not do that as a mod, but more importantly, would not choose to do so as an individual. Perhaps the question posed in the OP is more to the point of why a nonbeliever would be moderating in a Christianity forum in the first place (along with not being converted in the process of doing so.) I moderate here because I like it. Enjoy it. Have learned quite a bit regarding Christianity. Have found myself looking up numerous scripture passages due to the posts I read in order to moderate them, whether I am a nonbeliever or not.

In terms of the state/condition that this forum is in, as presented by the OP, I supposed I have a couple of thoughts regarding that. I remember ages ago someone posting a similiar type question, and I responded then as I do now: This is your forum, folks. If you wish for it to be a purely argumentative, contentious, and nasty posting place, then that is the choice that every member makes. Despite the relationships formed on this forum (both positive and negative) I have always felt that there is some degree of distance and thereby "safety" in attacking another's beliefs. I often wonder (and more often doubt) that much that is said here would not necessarily be said to another's face in real life. In short: It's your forum, and you all are the ones who choose what the tenor and atmosphere of this forum is. One can't help but wonder how much this subforum has to do with Christianity as opposed to who wants to 'win the fight' (denominational views being respectively upheld here) the most. Sadly, however, in the overwhelming majority cases, I suspect that people feel that they have "won the battle but have lost the war." --Why there would even need exist such "wars" on a Christianity forum is something of an oxymoron to me, but it is what it is.

As for the fact that June has not become converted:

It seems to me that the likelihood of anyone actually being converted as the result of posts on a message board is somewhat minimal. I have two real life, extremely good friends who happen to be ordained ministers. My sense is that if conversion was in the fate of "June" that it could have or possibly would have by now.

Eyewrist contends that this thread is not about me. That is something that I find rather compelling in light of his/her attempting to put the OP in the context of what he/she sincerely claims to have intended in starting this thread. It's compelling to me given the fact that it is only "June" who is mentioned in this thread. No other atheists have been cited, hence, I naturally believe that this thread is, in fact, precisely about me for some reason. "Atheists" in general were not mentioned or included; in short, the thread was written (in my opinion) as a directive towards June. My name is in the title of the thread, so to say that this thread is not pertaining to me is somehow confounding given the denials in many of the posts. I mention this not because I feel any ill will towards eyewrist whatsoever; I have no reason to. He/she merely asked a quesiton.

Why haven't I been converted? --Because I haven't. Because I do not believe in God, and am content with my nonbelief. I have certainly spent enough of my life, previosly, searching/seeking for what a God would be and/or represent, up to and including obtaining an undergraduate degree in Religious Studies and Theology. -Hardly someone who is or would be interested in "ruffling feathers" but rather, one who is respectful of all world religions (and Christianity in particular) and who feels that all who self-identify as Christians should be afforded that respect.

I haven't become "converted" because (in part) there would appear to be the expectation among some here that I should be. I appreciate, sincerely, those of you who indicate that you care for the well being of my soul, and accordingly dependent upon your wish to see me end up either in hell or heaven after death. However, I can't help but feel that the concern pertaining to my soul originates more in the individual asking than it has to do with me. You see, if there was the desire in me to become a convert, no doubt I would express that. Then again, to do so on a message board in which there is so little that Christians agree on or about is not particularly "ripe pickings" for anyone who is truly seeking God or belief. What they would (and no doubt do) encounter here are Christians who are more invested in arguing than representing what the true nature of Christianity is all about. I may be a nonbeliever, but even I know that Jesus didn't go around banging others over the head with a bible. He was someone who simply said "Follow me." --That, to this nonbeliever, is far more the initial message behind Christianity than much of what is argued about here. "Following Him." So to what would June be 'converted' to? Arguing? Debate is a good thing; it's something that is encouraged and enables people to grow in terms of their intellectual capabilities and it serves a very integral purpose. Yet it's somewhat confounding to me just how anyone would wish to see me converted into....what? An actual debate itself, or the tenor of that debate? Thus, for the nonbeliever or the seeker, the question becomes where and what IS your Christianity, and how is it expressed or conveyed? No seeker wishes or would be inclined to convert into a confusing mix of what and how Christianity is oftentimes presented. A little more Christ, perhaps, with a little less arguing might go farther. I suspect it did for Jesus.

The real question thus becomes that which if I was open to being converted, how would one even go about it doing so here? Even this nonbeliever is aware of what Christianity entails, and yet, part of what she would not expect it to entail was nastiness, infighting, and arguements that rise to the level of outright attacks. So my quesiton to you is just how would you like to see me converted, should I deem that desierable or to be a heart felt aspect of my spiritual self? To which denomination should I convert to? Should I convert to ET, or UR? --Or should I avoid the issue altogether, given the fact that there is no reconciliation between the two, and therein I would be inclined to wonder what the "true" Christianity is or would be. I wouldn't be inclined to seek out conversion; perhaps Buddhism would be more desirable to a seeker coming here, merely due to it's lack of contention.

So in the end, a part of me would love to say that the reason that I've not become "converted" is due to the nature of the posts I read here, but that would truly be a false and accusatory statement. That is not my point. I think what is needed here for anyone to be converted are two things: 1) A fundamental respect for the nonbeliever, meaning that you do not insult them or react to their nonbelief with rudeness or telling them that they are "wrong" and 2) An overall sense of unity and openness amid a religious belief that was NOT founded on ongong contention and arguement. I have studied and am familiar enough with the bible to know that Jesus was (in all likelihood) far less concerned with much of what I read in many of these posts. In other words, you want to convert June? --A little more representation of Jesus and a little less angry contention that even an atheist would question as being representative of true Christianity would be a start...

Please know that I have no problem with that which is expressed in this thread; if anything, it would almost seem to speak for itself in terms of much that has herein been addressed....Nonetheless, I am someone who is forever and always incilned to believe that the true nature of Christianity that members feel exist in their hearts and minds is of course genuine, authentic, and ultimatley needs and should be conveyed and respected.

--Regardless of whether I have been converted yet, or not.


Take genuine gentle care...

Last edited by june 7th; 01-26-2011 at 06:58 PM..
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:10 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,746,380 times
Reputation: 58197
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June rarely posts in the "first person" (just a habit of mine) except when she really means "business" and wishes to make sure that people realize that it's the true "just June" that is posting. --That is not to imply that the third person posts are in anyway disengenious, it's just that I felt more inclined to post in frist person to this one.

As I see it, there are two issues that are being presented in this thread: 1) Why I have not somehow been converted as yet, despite my time on this forum and my moderating of it, and 2) The issue regarding why this forum has apparently descended into some degree of chaos.

First off, let me just say that I was asked to moderate this, along with the other two Religioin forums. I've been doing so since before the inception of the Christianity forum, and to be honest, I enjoy doing what I do. I do it to the best of my abililty, and in being a nonbeliever, I hopefully do it without any bias towards one denomination or another. It's a matter of applying the Terms of Service. I suppose I begin this post with this explanation, due to the following:

It is not, nor has it ever been my intent to "ruffle" anyone's feathers. I would not do that as a mod, but more importantly, would not choose to do so as an individual. Perhaps the question posed in the OP is more to the point of why a nonbeliever would be moderating in a Christianity forum in the first place (along with not being converted in the process of doing so.) I moderate here because I like it. Enjoy it. Have learned quite a bit regarding Christianity. Have found myself looking up numerous scripture passages due to the posts I read in order to moderate them, whether I am a nonbeliever or not.

In terms of the state/condition that this forum is in, as presented by the OP, I supposed I have a couple of thoughts regarding that. I remember ages ago someone posting a similiar type question, and I responded then as I do now: This is your forum, folks. If you wish for it to be a purely argumentative, contentious, and nasty posting place, then that is the choice that every member makes. Despite the relationships formed on this forum (both positive and negative) I have always felt that there is some degree of distance and thereby "safety" in attacking another's beliefs. I often wonder (and more often doubt) that much that is said here would not necessarily be said to another's face in real life. In short: It's your forum, and you all are the ones who choose what the tenor and atmosphere of this forum is. One can't help but wonder how much this subforum has to do with Christianity as opposed to who wants to 'win the fight' (denominational views being respectively upheld here) the most. Sadly, however, in the overwhelming majority cases, I suspect that people feel that they have "won the battle but have lost the war." --Why there would even need exist such "wars" on a Christianity forum is something of an oxymoron to me, but it is what it is.

As for the fact that June has not become converted:

It seems to me that the likelihood of anyone actually being converted as the result of posts on a message board is somewhat minimal. I have two real life, extremely good friends who happen to be ordained ministers. My sense is that if conversion was in the fate of "June" that it could have or possibly would have by now.

Eyewrist contends that this thread is not about me. That is something that I find rather compelling in light of his/her attempting to put the OP in the context of what he/she sincerely claims to have intended in starting this thread. It's compelling to me given the fact that it is only "June" who is mentioned in this thread. No other atheists have been cited, hence, I naturally believe that this thread is, in fact, precisely about me for some reason. "Atheists" in general were not mentioned or included; in short, the thread was written (in my opinion) as a directive towards June. My name is in the title of the thread, so to say that this thread is not pertaining to me is somehow confounding given the denials in many of the posts. I mention this not because I feel any ill will towards eyewrist whatsoever; I have no reason to. He/she merely asked a quesiton.

Why haven't I been converted? --Because I haven't. Because I do not believe in God, and am content with my nonbelief. I have certainly spent enough of my life, previosly, searching/seeking for what a God would be and/or represent, up to and including obtaining an undergraduate degree in Religious Studies and Theology. -Hardly someone who is or would be interested in "ruffling feathers" but rather, one who is respectful of all world religions (and Christianity in partiular) and who feels that all who self-identify as Christians should be afforded that respect.

I haven't become "converted" because (in part) there would appear to be the expectation among some here that I should be. I appreciate, sincerely, those of you who indicate that you care for the well being of my soul, and accordingly dependent upon your wish to see me end up either in hell or heaven after death. However, I can't help but feel that the concern pertaining to my soul originates more in the individual asking than it has to do with me. You see, if there was the desire in me to become a convert, no doubt I would express that. Then again, to do so on a message board in which there is so little that Christians agree on or about is not particularly "ripe pickings" for anyone who is truly seeking God or belief. What they would (and no doubt do) encounter here are Christians who are more invested in arguing than representing what the true nature of Christianity is all about. I may be a nonbeliever, but even I know that Jesus didn't go around banging others over the head with a bible. He was someone who simply said "Follow me." --That, to this nonbeliever, is far more the initial message behind Christianity than much of what is argued about here. "Following Him." So to what would June be 'converted' to? Arguing? Debate is a good thing; it's something that is encouraged and enables people to grow in terms of their intellectual capabilities and it serves a very integral purpose. Yet it's somewhat confounding to me just how anyone would wish to see me converted into....what? The actual debate itself, or the tenor of that debate? Where, or what IS your Christianity, and how is it expressed or conveyed?

The real question thus becomes that which if I was open to being converted, how would one even go about it doing so here? Even this nonbeliever is aware of what Christianity entails, and yet, part of what she did not expect it to entail was nastiness, infighting, and arguements that rise to the level of outright attacks. So my quesiton to you is just how would you like to see me converted, should I deem that desierable or a heart felt aspect of my spiritual self? To which denomination should I convert to? Should I convert to ET, or UR? --Or should I avoid the issue altogether, given the fact that there is no reconciliation between the two, and therein I would be inclined to wonder what the "true" Christianity is or would be. I wouldn't be inclined to seek out conversion; perhaps Buddhism would be more desirable to a seeker coming here, merely due to it's lack of contention.

So in the end, a part of me would love to say that the reason that I 've not become "converted" is due to the nature of the posts I read here, but that would truly be a false and accusatory statement. I think what is needed here for anyone to be converted are two things: 1) A fundamental respect for the nonbeliever, meaning that you do not insult them or react to their nonbelief with rudeness or telling them that they are "wrong" and 2) An overall sense of unity amid a religious belief that was NOT founded on ongong contention and arguement. I have studied and am familiar enough with the bible to know that Jesus was (in all likelihood) far less concerned than much of what I read in many of these posts. In other words, you want to convert June? --A little more representation of Jesus and a little less angry contention that even an atheist would question as being representative of true Christianity would be a start...

Please know that I have no problem with that which is expressed in this thread; if anything, it would almost seem to speak for itself in terms of much that has herein been addressed....Nonetheless, I am someone who is forever and always hopeful that the true nature of Christianity that members feel exist in their hearts and minds is of course genuine, authentic, and ultimatley needs and should be respected.

--Regardless of whether I have been converted yet, or not.


Take genuine gentle care...
Nice post Miss June, it all makes perfect sense to me!!
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:17 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June rarely posts in the "first person" (just a habit of mine) except when she really means "business" and wishes to make sure that people realize that it's the true "just June" that is posting. --That is not to imply that the third person posts are in anyway disengenious, it's just that I felt more inclined to post in frist person to this one.

As I see it, there are two issues that are being presented in this thread: 1) Why I have not somehow been converted as yet, despite my time on this forum and my moderating of it, and 2) The issue regarding why this forum has apparently descended into some degree of chaos.

First off, let me just say that I was asked to moderate this, along with the other two Religioin forums. I've been doing so since before the inception of the Christianity forum, and to be honest, I enjoy doing what I do. I do it to the best of my abililty, and in being a nonbeliever, I hopefully do it without any bias towards one denomination or another. It's a matter of applying the Terms of Service. I suppose I begin this post with this explanation, due to the following:

It is not, nor has it ever been my intent to "ruffle" anyone's feathers. I would not do that as a mod, but more importantly, would not choose to do so as an individual. Perhaps the question posed in the OP is more to the point of why a nonbeliever would be moderating in a Christianity forum in the first place (along with not being converted in the process of doing so.) I moderate here because I like it. Enjoy it. Have learned quite a bit regarding Christianity. Have found myself looking up numerous scripture passages due to the posts I read in order to moderate them, whether I am a nonbeliever or not.

In terms of the state/condition that this forum is in, as presented by the OP, I supposed I have a couple of thoughts regarding that. I remember ages ago someone posting a similiar type question, and I responded then as I do now: This is your forum, folks. If you wish for it to be a purely argumentative, contentious, and nasty posting place, then that is the choice that every member makes. Despite the relationships formed on this forum (both positive and negative) I have always felt that there is some degree of distance and thereby "safety" in attacking another's beliefs. I often wonder (and more often doubt) that much that is said here would not necessarily be said to another's face in real life. In short: It's your forum, and you all are the ones who choose what the tenor and atmosphere of this forum is. One can't help but wonder how much this subforum has to do with Christianity as opposed to who wants to 'win the fight' (denominational views being respectively upheld here) the most. Sadly, however, in the overwhelming majority cases, I suspect that people feel that they have "won the battle but have lost the war." --Why there would even need exist such "wars" on a Christianity forum is something of an oxymoron to me, but it is what it is.

As for the fact that June has not become converted:

It seems to me that the likelihood of anyone actually being converted as the result of posts on a message board is somewhat minimal. I have two real life, extremely good friends who happen to be ordained ministers. My sense is that if conversion was in the fate of "June" that it could have or possibly would have by now.

Eyewrist contends that this thread is not about me. That is something that I find rather compelling in light of his/her attempting to put the OP in the context of what he/she sincerely claims to have intended in starting this thread. It's compelling to me given the fact that it is only "June" who is mentioned in this thread. No other atheists have been cited, hence, I naturally believe that this thread is, in fact, precisely about me for some reason. "Atheists" in general were not mentioned or included; in short, the thread was written (in my opinion) as a directive towards June. My name is in the title of the thread, so to say that this thread is not pertaining to me is somehow confounding given the denials in many of the posts. I mention this not because I feel any ill will towards eyewrist whatsoever; I have no reason to. He/she merely asked a quesiton.

Why haven't I been converted? --Because I haven't. Because I do not believe in God, and am content with my nonbelief. I have certainly spent enough of my life, previosly, searching/seeking for what a God would be and/or represent, up to and including obtaining an undergraduate degree in Religious Studies and Theology. -Hardly someone who is or would be interested in "ruffling feathers" but rather, one who is respectful of all world religions (and Christianity in partiular) and who feels that all who self-identify as Christians should be afforded that respect.

I haven't become "converted" because (in part) there would appear to be the expectation among some here that I should be. I appreciate, sincerely, those of you who indicate that you care for the well being of my soul, and accordingly dependent upon your wish to see me end up either in hell or heaven after death. However, I can't help but feel that the concern pertaining to my soul originates more in the individual asking than it has to do with me. You see, if there was the desire in me to become a convert, no doubt I would express that. Then again, to do so on a message board in which there is so little that Christians agree on or about is not particularly "ripe pickings" for anyone who is truly seeking God or belief. What they would (and no doubt do) encounter here are Christians who are more invested in arguing than representing what the true nature of Christianity is all about. I may be a nonbeliever, but even I know that Jesus didn't go around banging others over the head with a bible. He was someone who simply said "Follow me." --That, to this nonbeliever, is far more the initial message behind Christianity than much of what is argued about here. "Following Him." So to what would June be 'converted' to? Arguing? Debate is a good thing; it's something that is encouraged and enables people to grow in terms of their intellectual capabilities and it serves a very integral purpose. Yet it's somewhat confounding to me just how anyone would wish to see me converted into....what? An actual debate itself, or the tenor of that debate? Thus, for the nonbeliever or the seeker, the question becomes where and what IS your Christianity, and how is it expressed or conveyed? No seeker wishes or would be inclined to convert into a confusing mix of what and how Christianity is oftentimes presented. A little more Christ, perhaps, with a little less arguing might go farther. I suspect it did for Jesus.

The real question thus becomes that which if I was open to being converted, how would one even go about it doing so here? Even this nonbeliever is aware of what Christianity entails, and yet, part of what she would not expect it to entail was nastiness, infighting, and arguements that rise to the level of outright attacks. So my quesiton to you is just how would you like to see me converted, should I deem that desierable or to be a heart felt aspect of my spiritual self? To which denomination should I convert to? Should I convert to ET, or UR? --Or should I avoid the issue altogether, given the fact that there is no reconciliation between the two, and therein I would be inclined to wonder what the "true" Christianity is or would be. I wouldn't be inclined to seek out conversion; perhaps Buddhism would be more desirable to a seeker coming here, merely due to it's lack of contention.

So in the end, a part of me would love to say that the reason that I've not become "converted" is due to the nature of the posts I read here, but that would truly be a false and accusatory statement. That is not my point. I think what is needed here for anyone to be converted are two things: 1) A fundamental respect for the nonbeliever, meaning that you do not insult them or react to their nonbelief with rudeness or telling them that they are "wrong" and 2) An overall sense of unity and openness amid a religious belief that was NOT founded on ongong contention and arguement. I have studied and am familiar enough with the bible to know that Jesus was (in all likelihood) far less concerned with much of what I read in many of these posts. In other words, you want to convert June? --A little more representation of Jesus and a little less angry contention that even an atheist would question as being representative of true Christianity would be a start...

Please know that I have no problem with that which is expressed in this thread; if anything, it would almost seem to speak for itself in terms of much that has herein been addressed....Nonetheless, I am someone who is forever and always incilned to believe that the true nature of Christianity that members feel exist in their hearts and minds is of course genuine, authentic, and ultimatley needs and should be conveyed and respected.

--Regardless of whether I have been converted yet, or not.


Take genuine gentle care...

Excellent post , thank you for taking the time.
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