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Old 01-26-2011, 04:48 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,119,569 times
Reputation: 866

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Hi everyone!
Scenario 1:

A mother has several small children whom she loves more than her own life.
With such a love as she feels for them, would she ever think of putting them outside in sub-freezing temperatures, close the door, and wait to see "if any will choose" to come back in again? Or "to see who loves her most?" Would she even allow her children to run the risk of dying? Would she "test" their individual abilities or their "love," at the risk of them losing their own lives? I don't think so!

So would God, in His "infinite" Love which "surpasses knowledge," leave His own creatures doomed to eternal destruction?

Scenario 2:

A mother puts her small children (poor things!) into a car and gets the car off rolling down a hill towards a cliff and certain death.
Would she simply call out to them, and hope that some will jump out and save themselves?
Would she not rather jump in, push all the kids out and risk dying herself, that they might be safe?

Is God's love for us any less than this?

Let's discuss..!

Blessings,
brian
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:41 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,379,125 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Hi everyone!
Scenario 1:

A mother has several small children whom she loves more than her own life.
With such a love as she feels for them, would she ever think of putting them outside in sub-freezing temperatures, close the door, and wait to see "if any will choose" to come back in again? Or "to see who loves her most?" Would she even allow her children to run the risk of dying? Would she "test" their individual abilities or their "love," at the risk of them losing their own lives? I don't think so!

So would God, in His "infinite" Love which "surpasses knowledge," leave His own creatures doomed to eternal destruction?

Scenario 2:

A mother puts her small children (poor things!) into a car and gets the car off rolling down a hill towards a cliff and certain death.
Would she simply call out to them, and hope that some will jump out and save themselves?
Would she not rather jump in, push all the kids out and risk dying herself, that they might be safe?

Is God's love for us any less than this?

Let's discuss..!

Blessings,
brian
While I KNOW that this is your attempt to bring in Universalism to an unsuspecting mind,,let me say this.

God is not our mother. Sorry, your analogy fails from the get-go.

But what if,,ok?

Quote:
A mother has several small children whom she loves more than her own life.
With such a love as she feels for them, would she ever think of putting them outside in sub-freezing temperatures, close the door, and wait to see "if any will choose" to come back in again? Or "to see who loves her most?" Would she even allow her children to run the risk of dying? Would she "test" their individual abilities or their "love," at the risk of them losing their own lives? I don't think so!
Ok, then let me ask you a question Brian. WHY ARE YOU HERE? Guess what? You are already 'outside' the door in subfreezing temps. You are lost in a world that has been taken from you, and you are in bondage. God has placed you here for a specific purpose, right? WHAT is the purpose, because you are outside, until YOU KNOCK to get back in. YOU MUST KNOCK TO GET BACK IN, and you must know HOW to knock. Not any knock will do. It is personal, between you and the DoorMaster.

"Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'

But, of course this parable will be dismissed, right?

Quote:
A mother puts her small children (poor things!) into a car and gets the car off rolling down a hill towards a cliff and certain death.
Would she simply call out to them, and hope that some will jump out and save themselves?
Would she not rather jump in, push all the kids out and risk dying herself, that they might be safe?
This isn't even worth commenting on, really. I could use the same thing as far as Adam and Eve went, but even then, they had instruction for Life, yet chose death.
The only way this senario works, is if the mother showed the children HOW to get out of the car, how to push the brakes, how to turn the wheel, etc.
But, it isn't where you had it, huh? Instead you make it look like God HASN'T given us the playbook for Life. You make it look like He hasn't given us even a freewill choice to seek and learn, repent believe on the Name of His Son and be saved. "Jesus take the wheel". Sorry, had to use it,,,love the song.

So, why would we make God loo bad in this light? We HAVE what we need for Life, thanks be to His Son Jesus Christ, who He(Father) sent.

Nuff said,,

Peace,

Tony
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:01 AM
 
373 posts, read 311,397 times
Reputation: 98
Luke 13:24-30:
He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
“But he will answer, ‘I don't know you or where you come from.’
“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”
They are not shut out forever.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,119,569 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
While I KNOW that this is your attempt to bring in Universalism to an unsuspecting mind,,let me say this.

God is not our mother. Sorry, your analogy fails from the get-go.

But what if,,ok?

Tony,
He's MORE than our mother: He's our CREATOR!

Ok, then let me ask you a question Brian. WHY ARE YOU HERE? Guess what? You are already 'outside' the door in subfreezing temps. You are lost in a world that has been taken from you, and you are in bondage. God has placed you here for a specific purpose, right? WHAT is the purpose, because you are outside, until YOU KNOCK to get back in. YOU MUST KNOCK TO GET BACK IN, and you must know HOW to knock. Not any knock will do. It is personal, between you and the DoorMaster.

"Strive to enter through the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.
"Once the head of the house gets up and shuts the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock on the door, saying, 'Lord, open up to us!' then He will answer and say to you, 'I do not know where you are from.'

But, of course this parable will be dismissed, right?

No, I don't dismiss the parable. Tell me though: exactly how do you "strive?" By repeating over and over, "I know I believe, I know I believe..." ad infinitum?

Personally, I don't believe that mankind is shut out anymore. Christ brought us back in again.

This isn't even worth commenting on, really. I could use the same thing as far as Adam and Eve went, but even then, they had instruction for Life, yet chose death.
The only way this senario works, is if the mother showed the children HOW to get out of the car, how to push the brakes, how to turn the wheel, etc.
But, it isn't where you had it, huh? Instead you make it look like God HASN'T given us the playbook for Life. You make it look like He hasn't given us even a freewill choice to seek and learn, repent believe on the Name of His Son and be saved. "Jesus take the wheel". Sorry, had to use it,,,love the song.

So, why would we make God loo bad in this light? We HAVE what we need for Life, thanks be to His Son Jesus Christ, who He(Father) sent.

Nuff said,,

No, I think the scenario is sufficient in and of itself. The mother (God) put her children in a car and set it rolling (towards a cliff). She may tell them how to get out, but she doesn't intervene. He who saves himself is, well, saved. He who can't open the car door and jump in time.... oh, well..

But of course I don't believe that God leaves His very children to try to "find a way to safety." I believe that, like the mother who gets in the car and gets the children out safely, at the risk of losing her own life, is what the Gospel comes down to. It's not complicated if you think about it..

Peace,

Tony
Blessings Tony,
brian
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:41 PM
 
5,441 posts, read 4,679,421 times
Reputation: 1120
Many confuse human love with God's divine love. What's divine love?

1 Corinthians 13
[4] Charity [divine love] suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth:
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Old 01-27-2011, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,582,100 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Many confuse human love with God's divine love. What's divine love?

1 Corinthians 13
[4] Charity [divine love] suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth:
We (humans) are the apple of God's eye. There is no confusion (except in the blinded minds and hearts of men). God sent Jesus into the world for our sake. Emmanuel - God is WITH US. God's love must flow THROUGH US, in order to be manifest in the world. God is THE SOURCE of all that is good and of LOVE in all its manifestations.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:22 AM
 
5,743 posts, read 4,595,638 times
Reputation: 4164
Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsong View Post
we (humans) are the apple of god's eye. There is no confusion (except in the blinded minds and hearts of men). God sent jesus into the world for our sake. Emmanuel - god is with us. God's love must flow through us, in order to be manifest in the world. God is the source of all that is good and of love in all its manifestations.

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Old 01-27-2011, 01:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,965 posts, read 5,582,100 times
Reputation: 1584
Is God a Child Abuser?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNBrYJXhMPo
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Old 01-27-2011, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,119,569 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Many confuse human love with God's divine love. What's divine love?

1 Corinthians 13
[4] Charity [divine love] suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
[5] Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
[6] Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
[7] Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
[8] Charity never faileth:


Yes; human love often is selfish. But divine Love is interested in the betterment of others.

Blessings to you scgraham,
Brian
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