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Old 01-26-2011, 04:18 AM
 
373 posts, read 310,779 times
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Are there really sheep and goats....

Matthew 25:33 And he will set, the sheep, indeed, on his right hand, but, the goats, on the left.

πρόβατον
probaton/sheep
Thayer Definition:
1) any four footed, tame animal accustomed to graze, small cattle
1a) a sheep, and so always in the NT <==== Is that a fact or doctrine?
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: probably from a presumed. derivative of G4260
Citing in TDNT: 6:689, 936[hr]
πρόβατον
próbaton/sheep; gen. probátou, neut. noun from probaínō (G4260), to go before, walk ahead. Whatever walks forward. In the Ionic and Doric usages it was spoken of quadrupeds (in distinction from bipeds, and things flying, creeping, or swimming).
Generally, tá próbata were animals, but especially smaller animals such as sheep and goats (Mat 7:15, "in the dress of sheep" [a.t.]; Mat 9:36; Mat 10:16; Mat 12:11-12; Mat 18:12; Mar 6:34; Luk 15:4, Luk 15:6; Joh 2:14-15; Joh 10:1-4, Joh 10:12-13; Act 8:32; Rom 8:36; 1Pe 2:25; Rev 18:13; Sept.: Gen 12:16; Gen 13:5; Exo 12:3 ff.). In Attic and NT usage sheep are distinguished from goats (Mat 25:32-33). Figuratively of those under the care and watch of someone as sheep under a shepherd (Mat 10:6; Mat 15:24; Mat 26:31; Mar 14:27; Joh 10:7-8, Joh 10:11, Joh 10:15-16; Joh 21:16-17; Heb 13:20).
In some texts as in Joh 21:16-17 the word is found in its diminutive form, probátion, little sheep. This is to be distinguished from arníon (G721), lamb. Probátion was used as a term of endearment. Sheep, on account of their simplicity, mildness, inoffensiveness, patience and obedience, are used as emblems of believers in Christ (Joh 10:15-16, Joh 10:26-27 [cf. Mat 25:32-33; Heb 13:20]). Lost or straying sheep represent unconverted persons wandering in sin and error (Mat 10:6; Mat 15:24; Joh 10:26-27; 1Pe 2:25 [cf. Mat 9:36; Mar 6:34]).
Deriv.: probatikós (G4262), pertaining to sheep.
Ant.: ériphos (G2056), a goat; eríphion (G2055), a kid, small goat; trágos (G5131), he-goat.[hr]
ἐρίφιον
eriphion/goat
Thayer Definition:
1) a kid, a young goat
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2056[hr]ἐρίφιον
eríphion/goat; gen. eriphíou, neut. noun, a diminutive of ériphos (G2056), a goat. A kid, young goat (Mat 25:33). The words ériphos, a young goat, and the diminutive eríphion, appear in the picture of the last judgment where they are contrasted with sheep (próbata [G4263]). The point of contrast lies in the color rather than the character of the animals, the sheep being pure white while the goats are mostly covered with long black hair. In Son 4:1, the locks of the beloved are compared to "a flock of goats, that appear from Mount Gilead." The Son of Man shall separate all the nations "as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats" (Mat 25:32), which simile is quite true to pastoral life. Sheep and goats pasture together, but never trespass on each other's domains; they are kept together but they do not mix; they may be seen to enter the fold in company, but once inside they are kept separate.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:20 AM
 
373 posts, read 310,779 times
Reputation: 98
KJVMat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
WWMat 25:33 And he shall set the old on his right hand, but the babes on the left.
νήπιος
nēpios
Thayer Definition:
1) an infant, little child
2) a minor, not of age
3) metaphorically childish, untaught, unskilled
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from an obsolete particle ne- (implying negation) and G2031
Citing in TDNT: 4:912, 631
-------------
KJVTit 2:11-12 11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
παιδεύω
paideuō
Thayer Definition:
1) to train children
1a) to be instructed or taught or learn
1b) to cause one to learn
2) to chastise
2a) to chastise or castigate with words, to correct
2a1) of those who are moulding the character of others by reproof and admonition
2b) of God
2b1) to chasten by the affliction of evils and calamities
2c) to chastise with blows, to scourge
2c1) of a father punishing his son
2c2) of a judge ordering one to be scourged
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G3816
Citing in TDNT: 5:596, 753
[hr]
Sheeps and goats is about judgement.
[sup][size=6pt]KJV[/size][/sup]1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Chastened=teaching => See defenition above.
κρίνω
krinō
Thayer Definition:
1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
5a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
5a1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
5b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
5b1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
6a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
7a) to dispute
7b) in a forensic sense
7b1) to go to law, have suit at law
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: perhaps a primitive word
Citing in TDNT: 3:921, 469[hr]
More (http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/judgement_and_punishment/dude_chastening_on_day_judgement_oo_6373.msg67458. html#msg67458 - broken link)
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:23 AM
 
373 posts, read 310,779 times
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Feedback on the above thoughts please
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,112,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Feedback on the above thoughts please
Hi WW,
I don't want to derail the thread, I just want to share a current thought of mine on this parable: any human being can be considered a sheep or a goat on any given day. We can do good, and be considered a sheep. Or we can not do good, and be considered a goat.
So I don't know if these two "labels" are static labels. In fact, just because someone says they are "Christian" does not mean that they are doing good works!
Likewise, someone may do good works (sheep works) and not even call themselves "Christian!"

Just a reflection.. Hope it helps here!

Blessings!
Brian
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:20 AM
 
373 posts, read 310,779 times
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That's more like wheat and shaff. They are both part of the same plant.
Sinner will be spared but the sin (chaff) will be destroyed.
Surely there is some overlap with sheep/goat but the OP point in a different direction.
People seem to think goat are bad. But Leviticus shows that God accepts goat as an offering. The Temple curtain had goat hair in it.
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:27 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,112,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
That's more like wheat and shaff. They are both part of the same plant.
Sinner will be spared but the sin (chaff) will be destroyed.
Surely there is some overlap with sheep/goat but the OP point in a different direction.
People seem to think goat are bad. But Leviticus shows that God accepts goat as an offering. IIRC the Temple curtain had goat hair in it.
Yes, I agree. In fact, the sacrifice for sin was acceptable either with a sheep or goat. I don't see where a goat is "bad" either.

"And he brought the people's offering, and took the goat, which was the sin offering for the people, and slew it, and offered it for sin, as the first." Lev. 9.15

I don't see a distinction between sheep and goat. Or am I missing something?

Blessings,
brian
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Old 01-26-2011, 05:40 AM
 
373 posts, read 310,779 times
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Of course there are goats and sheep. Go to a farm and see the proof of that.
Goats are not unclean animals. They are fit for offering. (most animals are not)
Unclean animals won't even allowed near the Temple. Needless to say their hair wouldn't be used in the heart of the Temple.
So that simply proves goats are clean. And not evil as often shown in cartoons that show satan as half goat.
So just that little fact should be proof the seperation of goat and sheep isn't about good and evil.

Although related the OP is not about that. It's basicly about a (possible) translation error.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,909,570 times
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Just like good fish and bad fish, the angels will separate the good from the bad and throw the bad ones in the fire. There are many parables about this separation of good from the bad.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:33 AM
 
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Part of ME is going in that fire... and I could not be more pleased about that revelation.

We're all BOTH sheep and goats.
We're all BOTH Wheat and Chaff.

Those who think they are the wheat and others are the Chaff think too poorly of others.

Those who think they are the chaff and others are the wheat, think too poorly of themselves.

We have BOTH within.
And we're all walking both roads at once.
What is walking on the narrow road within us REMAINS.
What is walking on the WIDE road within us is being DESTROYED.

We are all in this together and God loves us ALL and has ALL of us in the palm of His hand. You (general you) are just as special as everyone else in this world. You are a unique and beautiful creation that cannot be replaced. You are loved. You are a CRUCIAL part of His plan. Of His creation. You are being refined and this is a beautiful thing.

Just the way I see it.
peace,
sparrow
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:26 AM
 
373 posts, read 310,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
We're all BOTH sheep and goats.
I'm not sure about that Sparrow. If there are really goats and sheep you are right.
But if it's an translation error then then it means young and old. We can't be young and old at the same time.


Quote:
We're all BOTH Wheat and Chaff.
Agreed
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