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Old 03-28-2013, 09:16 AM
 
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If Jesus did die on the 14th of Nisan and rose on the 17th of Nisan, it would have to be one of these 3 scenarios.


1)
14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday
17th Saturday Sabbath- Rose from the grave

-This wouldnt make any sense since there would be no excuse for why they didnt anoint the body on Friday and wait until after the Sabbath on Saturday to come back to the grave


2)
14th Friday Died @ 3PM
15th Saturday: Dual Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Sunday
17th Monday-Rose from the Grave

-This is assuming he must be in the grave for 3 fulls days, but even 3 days after Friday is Monday and the only way Friday can fit into scriptures is Friday would have to be the 1rst day, Sat the 2nd day and Sunday the 3rd Day, but it doesnt match with the 14th-17th of Nisan


3)
14th Thursday Died @ 3PM
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave

-This makes the most sense and matches with scriptures since no work is allowed on the Sabbaths as to why they would wait until the sabbath is over to bring spices to anoint the body, so when they came on the 1rst day of the week they noticed the grave was already empty.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
If you count the day's like everyone does now it would be 3 day's. Why would you count the part of the day that had already passed? Today is the 28th of March. Three day's from now will be the 31st of March. No different. You are counting the time that passes from one point to another and not all the day's that any portion passes.

I have heard people claim that in biblical times they did not correctly count day's despite every account in scripture being correct. And remember 3 day's and 3 night's is pretty clear. Start, say at 6pm on the 14th, add 72 hours and see where you end up. I end up at 6pm on the 17th. Not that I am saying it was 6pm that Christ died or was laid in the tomb. Just showing how to count it.
Counting days isn't that easily

e.g.

Today is March 28th, you say, let's met in 3 days, today + 3 days = March 31st.

But one could also say, that we met on the first day (today/day 0) and agreed that we will meet on the 4th day again

28th day 0, first day
29th day 1
30th day 2
31th day 3, fourth day, but three days after

Day 3 counted from day 0 is the 4th day. Or another example, when you 2 years old, it is already your third year of your life.

But it is fair to say, that day in a biblical sense can mean a period of 24 hours, no matter when it began? The 3rd day in this sense would be the third 'period of 24 hours' that began, that is after 48 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
If Jesus did die on the 14th of Nisan and rose on the 17th of Nisan, it would have to be one of these 3 scenarios.


1)
14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday
17th Saturday Sabbath- Rose from the grave

-This wouldnt make any sense since there would be no excuse for why they didnt anoint the body on Friday and wait until after the Sabbath on Saturday to come back to the grave
Your objection concerning that Friday makes sense. But that leaves us with the problem of the phrase "mia ton sabaton", if it actually means first day of the week.

Last edited by svenM; 03-28-2013 at 10:07 AM..
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:21 AM
 
367 posts, read 284,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Counting days isn't that easily

e.g.

Today is March 28th, you say, let's met in 3 days, today + 3 days = March 31st.

But one could also say, that we met on the first day (today/day 0) and agreed that we will meet on the 4th day again

28th day 0, first day
29th day 1
30th day 2
31th day 3, fourth day, but three days after

Day 3 counted from day 0 is the 4th day. Or another example, when you 2 years old, it is already your third year of your life.

But it is fair to say, that day in a biblical sense can mean a period of 24 hours, no matter when it began? The 3rd day in this sense would be the third 'period of 24 hours' that began, that is after 48 hours.



Your objection concerning that Friday makes sense. But that leaves us with the problem of the phrase "mia ton sabaton", if it actually means first day of the week.
But we need only deal with the "3 day's and 3 night's" that is claimed in scripture. All others such as "third day" will fit into that "3 day's and 3 night's".

Mat. 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: US
26,749 posts, read 14,236,001 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
Counting days isn't that easily

e.g.

Today is March 28th, you say, let's met in 3 days, today + 3 days = March 31st.

But one could also say, that we met on the first day (today/day 0) and agreed that we will meet on the 4th day again

28th day 0, first day
29th day 1
30th day 2
31th day 3, fourth day, but three days after

Day 3 counted from day 0 is the 4th day. Or another example, when you 2 years old, it is already your third year of your life.

But it is fair to say, that day in a biblical sense can mean a period of 24 hours, no matter when it began? The 3rd day in this sense would be the third 'period of 24 hours' that began, that is after 48 hours.


Your objection concerning that Friday makes sense. But that leaves us with the problem of the phrase "mia ton sabaton", if it actually means first day of the week.

Mera protos ebthomatha=first day of the week
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,668 posts, read 1,734,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
But we need only deal with the "3 day's and 3 night's" that is claimed in scripture. All others such as "third day" will fit into that "3 day's and 3 night's".

Mat. 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
This would allow the interpretation of crucification on Nisan 14th and ressurection on Nisan 17th?

What do you think which weekday it was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Mera protos ebthomatha=first day of the week
I would agree with that but maybe it is a Hebrew idiom though?

These links are also interesting:

http://www.translatum.gr/forum/index.php?topic=6592.0

Does "Sabbaton" really mean "week" in Luke 18:12?
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:13 PM
 
367 posts, read 284,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
This would allow the interpretation of crucification on Nisan 14th and ressurection on Nisan 17th?

What do you think which weekday it was?

Personally I believe the Resurrection took place just after or the moment the Sabbath ended at sundown on what we call Saturday. Maybe moments into the First day of the week. If this is correct you would simply go back in time 72 hours to find the time Jesus was placed in the tomb.
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Old 03-28-2013, 12:29 PM
 
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[SIZE=+1]The fact that "three days" is used by Hebrew idiom for any part of three days and three nights: [SIZE=+1]<--[/SIZE]Can anyone show proof if this is [SIZE=+1]true[/SIZE] o[SIZE=+1]r[/SIZE] not and if "heart o[SIZE=+1]f[/SIZE] the ea[SIZE=+1]rth" meant the grave as well.[/SIZE][/SIZE]

If i said, in 3 years you will get a new car, does mean you have to wait until 3/28/16 for the car or would January or February count as well since its in 2016 and in that 3rd year.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Germany
1,668 posts, read 1,734,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennisWayne View Post
Personally I believe the Resurrection took place just after or the moment the Sabbath ended at sundown on what we call Saturday. Maybe moments into the First day of the week. If this is correct you would simply go back in time 72 hours to find the time Jesus was placed in the tomb.
I'm quite neutral on the phrase "mia ton sabaton", maybe it is an idiom for "[day] one of seven days", but on the other hand, there is no satisfying evidence that sabaton can mean week, the dictionaries that say so refer to the New Testament verses that are thought to mean "first day of the week" a priori, so it is a circular argument. Secular Greek does of course not know the phrase. The Latin Vulgate provides a literal translation, which is remarkable, as it is from a time were weekdays were known.

Quote:
The earliest attestation of a seven-day week associated with heavenly luminaries is in the title of a lost work by Plutarch (46-120CE) titled Why are the days named after the planets reckoned in a different order from the actual order?[1] Between the 1st and 3rd centuries the Roman Empire gradually replaced the eight-day Roman nundinal cycle with the seven-day week. The order of the days was Sun, Moon, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, and Cronos, named after the heavenly bodies that presided over the first daylight hour of each day, according to hellenistic astrology. From Greece the planetary week names passed to the Romans, and from Latin to other languages of southern and western Europe, and to other languages later influenced by them.
Names of the days of the week - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The problem I see though is, if the ancient Greeks did not count weeks in weekdays as we do or weeks at all, than "first day of the week", "protos emera ebdomadas" or something like that could mean any day, it would be meaningless.

On the other hand, the day after the Sabbath could have been expressed more explicitly, e.g. by "the day after Sabbath" or "the 8th day".

To me it makes sense, that Jesus rested on Sabbath among on dead and revided the day later, but I do not know if this is what the Bible says.

PS:

The Romans had a 8 day week as I realized now:

Roman calendar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So the Jewish week and the Roman week are asynchronous, so to say Jesus was either ressurected on a Saturday or a Sunday or any other modern weekday is an anachronism. The Romans counted days from A to H and then again from A to H.

I think this sheds the whole controversy in a new light, the only thing we might say for sure is, Sunday is not the Day of the Lord and no special day and to understand Sunday as the first day of the week, or rather the 8th day, is an anachronism.

So either if Jesus was ressurected on the Sabbath or the day after Sabbath, this does in no way means that He was ressurected on a Sunday, but He was ressurected on a Jewish eigth day (if it was the day after Sabbath), a Jewish Sabbath might have been a Roman day A to H, and so might have been a Jewish first or eigth day.

Last edited by svenM; 03-28-2013 at 02:17 PM..
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:30 PM
Zur
 
949 posts, read 629,792 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
If Jesus did die on the 14th of Nisan and rose on the 17th of Nisan, it would have to be one of these 3 scenarios.


1)
14th Wednesday Died @ 3PM
15th Thursday Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Friday
17th Saturday Sabbath- Rose from the grave

-This wouldnt make any sense since there would be no excuse for why they didnt anoint the body on Friday and wait until after the Sabbath on Saturday to come back to the grave


2)
14th Friday Died @ 3PM
15th Saturday: Dual Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread) No work allowed
16th Sunday
17th Monday-Rose from the Grave

-This is assuming he must be in the grave for 3 fulls days, but even 3 days after Friday is Monday and the only way Friday can fit into scriptures is Friday would have to be the 1rst day, Sat the 2nd day and Sunday the 3rd Day, but it doesnt match with the 14th-17th of Nisan


3)
14th Thursday Died @ 3PM
15th Friday-Sabbath(Feast of Unleavened Bread): No work allowed
16th Saturday-Sabbath: No work allowed
17th Sunday -Rose from the Grave

-This makes the most sense and matches with scriptures since no work is allowed on the Sabbaths as to why they would wait until the sabbath is over to bring spices to anoint the body, so when they came on the 1rst day of the week they noticed the grave was already empty.
Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were watching the grave and they know what was going on. They witnessed the rolling away of the stone on Saturday about sunset, when Jesus was already risen. They knew very well that the tomb was guarded till Saturday at twilight when the soldiers went away. They knew they could not embalm on Friday. If they tried it is not written.They wanted to embalm not in the dark, so they went on Sunday morning. The sodiers were also witnesses of the events on Saturday and they gave witness to the currupt leadership. The resurrection of Jesus was not an event, nobody witnessed. They saw the embty tomb.
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Old 03-28-2013, 02:44 PM
 
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Since the Romans had someone guarding the tomb until the Sabbath was over, Jesus had to have risen once the guard left after the Sabbath on the 1rst day of the week. Anything after sunset on the Sabbath is now the 1rst day of the week.
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