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Old 03-21-2011, 12:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
This was answered in another recent thread of mine. Find the answer there.
Who has taken it upon "themselves" to avenge their doctrines in the name of God; twisting the gospel of loving your enemies,
over the past nineteen centuries?
Search the history of all Religions and your heart, it might open your eyes!

"Father forgive them, for they know not what they do."
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:41 AM
 
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if there IS ET,then is it possible to think that perhaps the folks going there owe some amt of retribution for their unGodly deeds bf going off to being tormented forever? or is it possible to assume that ET is enough?
take for example,the Columbine shooters.don't they owe a round of apologies and some retributions first?
I'm not saying they deserve heaven;I don't know what went wrong w them,but for God to say 'off with you' without them first owing up to their deeds here seems a bit off to me.
JMO.
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:31 AM
 
2,526 posts, read 2,317,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
I've noticed that ET believers never join into these conversations about Jesus asking God to forgive those who crucified him. I wonder why that is?
I think it's because they themselves have never truly believed the Gospel, the good news that Jesus died on the cross and forgave their sins. Consequently, they don't believe that anyone else's sins where forgiven either.

JMO though...
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,054,830 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlabamaStorm View Post
I think it's because they themselves have never truly believed the Gospel, the good news that Jesus died on the cross and forgave their sins. Consequently, they don't believe that anyone else's sins where forgiven either.

JMO though...
JMO too !!
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Old 03-21-2011, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,298 posts, read 20,952,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, `Father, forgive them, for they have not known what they do;' and parting his garments they cast a lot.[

Is it logical to assume Mr. Atheist, Mrs muslim, or a lukewarm Christian that never saw Jesus in person will be tortured forever while Jesus forgave people that beaten, ridiculed, crucified, spat upon, insulted and denied Him?
Nope, it certainly isn't. The issue is a matter of attitude, the condition of one's heart. God can see into a person's heart and understands the reasons behind lack of belief or commitment. For this reason, I think lukewarm Christians are at risk of a greater punishment than are atheists or Muslims. They may talk the talk; they're just not willing to walk the walk. There may be many reasons why an atheist or Muslim doesn't believe, and these reasons aren't always due to stubbornness or rebellion.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:13 PM
 
15,081 posts, read 7,577,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC122 View Post
if there IS ET,then is it possible to think that perhaps the folks going there owe some amt of retribution for their unGodly deeds bf going off to being tormented forever? or is it possible to assume that ET is enough?
take for example,the Columbine shooters.don't they owe a round of apologies and some retributions first?
I'm not saying they deserve heaven;I don't know what went wrong w them,but for God to say 'off with you' without them first owing up to their deeds here seems a bit off to me.
JMO.
I thought one of the main points of Christianity was that Jesus had paid the penalty for everyone's sin through his death? Why do Christians often seem so hell-bent (so to speak) on making sure everyone "gets what they deserve" for the things they've done wrong (or for being "lukewarm" or for not believing the "right things") if this is true? Even most URists insist that people will reap what they sow after death, in some fashion. Are people forgiven for their sins, according to Christians, or aren't they? And, if so, why the need and desire for vengeance and retribution? A need for restoration and healing between people, I can see, but a need for people to pay for what they've done? I don't get why that's necessary if you truly believe Jesus paid the price. Just saying.

Last edited by Pleroo; 03-21-2011 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I thought one of the main points of Christianity was that Jesus had paid the penalty for everyone's sin through his death? Why do Christians often seem so hell-bent (so to speak) on making sure everyone "gets what they deserve" for the things they've done wrong (or for being "lukewarm") if this is true? Even most URists insist that people will reap what they sow after death, in some fashion. Are people forgiven for their sins, according to Christians, or aren't they? And, if so, why the need and desire for vengeance and retribution? A need for restoration and healing between people, I can see, but a need for people to pay for what they've done? I don't get why that's necessary if you truly believe Jesus paid the price. Just saying.
I completely agree.

"A need for restoration and healing between people, I can see, but a need for people to pay for what they've done? I don't get why that's necessary if you truly believe Jesus paid the price."

Pleroo, what I bolded above is what I believe. I've said in the past "we'll all be refined" and what I mean by that is that it is His love that will refine us. I believe all people will be healed, their wrongs will be seen for what they were (mostly lack of love, ignorance, etc.) and they will be filled with love and the contrast of that love will be what is refining them. Will it be painful, yes possibly/probably? But those tears will be turned to joy. The tears will PRODUCE something. The tears will be part of the healing and coming to the knowledge of truth. I don't think anyone is going to miss out on that. It's not a punishment. It's for our own good. God will be healing, not punishing. Sometimes part of healing is difficult. I do not believe that people will be "punished". I believe it is more that they will be healed and that is the power and glory of God. LOVE. LOVE is the power and glory. God is love.

I don't think anyone is better than anyone else and I think that somehow all wrongs are going to be made right. (Love conquers all, all tears will be wiped away. That is a heck of a promise!) I think that all people who were separated by non-love in this life (think of the magnitude of that!), if they are not able to be reconciled by Love in this life, God will make sure they are in the next (again, think of the magnitude and implications of that!) And that right there will be "Love Conquering All." Love's power overwhelming and conquering the non-love within us in order to bring about reconciliation, healing and peace among all.

I see no other way.

I see Jesus as having started it all off... pointed us in the direction we need to go, we just don't seem to be moving too quickly. But I think we're just walking the path that needs to be walked towards reconciliation. We're learning and we're all in it together.

Well, I hope this made sense.
peace,
sparrow
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:59 PM
 
15,081 posts, read 7,577,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post

Well, I hope this made sense.
peace,
sparrow
Yes, Sparrow, it makes sense in that it's congruent with what Christians teach is the purpose of Jesus' death. Any punishment or retribution or vengeance for sin by God really makes zero sense in light of that, imho, because it totally negates what Christians believe Jesus did.

(Of course, I have difficulty believing that we have anything more than the here and now in which to experience the healng and restoration that love (which you call God/Jesus) provides, which makes the focus on retribution even more insidious since it wastes time that is so precious and short.)
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,606 posts, read 31,995,277 times
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I see the anti-Bible crowd is back to quoting the Bible

God used their ignorance to fulfill the prophecy. If the Romans had known who Jesus was, they would not have crusified Him, but it had to happen.

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 03-21-2011 at 01:20 PM..
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Old 03-21-2011, 01:16 PM
 
5,743 posts, read 4,595,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Yes, Sparrow, it makes sense in that it's congruent with what Christians teach is the purpose of Jesus' death. Any punishment or retribution or vengeance for sin by God really makes zero sense in light of that, imho, because it totally negates what Christians believe Jesus did.

(Of course, I have difficulty believing that we have anything more than the here and now in which to experience the healng and restoration that love (which you call God/Jesus) provides, which makes the focus on retribution even more insidious since it wastes time that is so precious and short.)

Pleroo, be back tonight, gotta run. I want to address what you said here. (We have different views of if there is more than the here and now, but I think we might be very much in agreement about something.) Be back later..
peace,
sparrow
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