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Old 01-26-2011, 09:16 AM
 
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Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, `Father, forgive them, for they have not known what they do;' and parting his garments they cast a lot.[

Is it logical to assume Mr. Atheist, Mrs muslim, or a lukewarm Christian that never saw Jesus in person will be tortured forever while Jesus forgave people that beaten, ridiculed, crucified, spat upon, insulted and denied Him?
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:22 AM
 
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"Father, forgive them..."
It's pretty amazing how often that get's overlooked/pushed to the side...
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:32 AM
 
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It was a short and very clear verse.
He didn't add any condition to His request.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
It was a short and very clear verse.
He didn't add any condition to His request.
So true.

Imagine. WHILE they were in the process of killing him.
"father forgive them..."

Is that not the very definition of love?
To have mercy, compassion, and forgiveness for someone..even AS they are killing you?

This is probably one of the most important verses in the bible...
and it was definitely one that was on my path that led me to seeing God's true character.

I hope more people ponder "Father forgive them..."


"they know not what they do.."

If THEY (who were right there physically WITH Jesus) knew not what they were doing... why does everyone think that all those now who do not believe "KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing" ??


"Blessed are those who have NOT seen and believed..."
That's another one that makes you go....


Doubting Thomas is one of my favorites. I would have been a doubting Thomas. I would have said .. "wait a minute...this is CRAZY! let me see those nail holes..!" I can totally relate to Doubting Thomas.

24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!” But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.” 26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”


28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Why is Doubting Thomas so special? If this life were truly just about some "choice" to make real quick before we die, as we live through this minefield of an unpredictable life.... why did this human being Thomas get to BE THERE and actually STICK HIS FINGERS in the nail holes..? Why is Thomas so dang special?? Did God love Thomas MORE than all of the folks of today? Think about it.


peace,
sparrow
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Old 03-20-2011, 04:48 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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The more i see and hear this verse and how powerful our lives become by having the same mind, the more i see how puny the message of christendom is.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Florida
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I've noticed that ET believers never join into these conversations about Jesus asking God to forgive those who crucified him. I wonder why that is? Also, Jesus commanded us to love even our enemies, not just those who love us. Must be that his heavenly Father requires that. Jesus said he only did what he saw the Father doing. How have these scriptures sat in plain sight for thousands of years and not been taught and preached as truth? It's astonishing! I reckon God is rattling some cages as we progress into the glorious Age of Tabernacles.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:44 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,651,035 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWings View Post
Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, `Father, forgive them, for they have not known what they do;' and parting his garments they cast a lot.[

Is it logical to assume Mr. Atheist, Mrs muslim, or a lukewarm Christian that never saw Jesus in person will be tortured forever while Jesus forgave people that beaten, ridiculed, crucified, spat upon, insulted and denied Him?
The lukewarm Christian is still a believer and has eternal life. He cannot lose it.

The atheist if he dies as such, and the Muslim if he dies without receiving Christ as Savior will be eternally lost. Forever separated from God. The word of God is clear on the matter.

Only those who believe in Christ can be forgiven thier sins. The work of Christ on the cross made that possible. Those sins were judged at the cross, but forgiveness for pre-salvation sins occurs at the moment of faith in Christ, while the believers post-salvation sins are forgiven when he names them to God as per 1 John 1:9. Any halfway honest person will realize that if the believers post-salvation sins aren't forgiven until he names them to God, then those sins weren't forgiven at the cross. Now the believer cannot lose his eternal salvation because of sin or for any other reason. But he will be disciplined for them.

The fact that Jesus taught how believers are to live and treat their neighbor in no way changes the fact that His primary reason for coming into the world was to pay for man's sins. With those sins paid for, eternal salvation is available to anyone who will place his personal faith in Christ. And those who die without Christ are eternally lost.

All the universalist twisting of the Scriptures have no effect on the truth of the matter.

John 3:36 'He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.'
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:18 PM
 
Location: East Coast
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Mike 555,Were those who Jesus asked the Father to forgive because they did not know what they were doing, believers ?, did his Father tell him no i won't forgive them, until they believe in you ?
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Old 03-20-2011, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Florida
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I thought I heard a robot go by. . . . . . . . . .

(in lieu of "I thought I saw a puddy cat")


Tweety~
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Mike 555,Were those who Jesus asked the Father to forgive because they did not know what they were doing, believers ?, did his Father tell him no i won't forgive them, until they believe in you ?
This was answered in another recent thread of mine. Find the answer there.
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