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Old 01-28-2011, 10:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Relational expresses the notion or ideology of separation, which resides only within the minds of men; it is not real or actual.
However, it appears to be that which is responsible for the creation of an "us" and "them" mentality.
Jerwade: Now that is an interesting response....However:

Are you saying that God is so much a part of mankind that does not exist any differentiation between man and him? "Relational" conveys (to June's mind) the ability of two entities to interact, to inter-relate. Without separation that would not be possible. She would agree with you that it resides within the minds of men, as that is our primary (at times, our only) experience of it.

She's not so certain she understands your last sentence, however. Are you saying that God intentionally created a non-differentiation between himself and mankind, or are you saying that a "relational God" is simply not a viable otpion?

(Or is June just getting stupid here in her non-comprehension?)
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
I know this was addressed to Miss Blue, but I hope you don't mind if I respond. I believe God knows and loves each one of us. I don't believe a person has to be a Christian for God to care about him.


Thank you Katzpur for your response.
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Southern California
1,839 posts, read 1,718,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
How do you test to see if he fails?
I ask Him a question, that I don't know the answer to, but He does. It's something that will happen in my life either the day I'm asking about it or the next day.

If it's the wrong answer, He fails.

He's never wrong.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,911,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June clearly has had, and is in many relationships now. Perhaps for the sake of clarity she would ask this: In June's relationships, the other is a tangible entity; there is discourse back and forth and both June and other are physically observable and emotionally relational. How, therefore, would those qualities specifically relate and/or parallel to an individual's relationship with God? Part of the quandry is that people seem to put God in a "box." --Either others believe as they do in their relationship witih him, or they are somehow outside of the box. (Am thinking everything from denominational differences to other world religious understandings of God.) Hence, how is it that one can have a "relational" experience of someone intangible, and who is so open to interpretation given such vast differences in one's understanding of him?

Is God relational with everybody even given the discrepancies that exist as regards who and how he is?

(Hope the above makes sense...)
Yes it makes sense....He is more tangible than all others we just find it easier to ignore Him because He doesnt impose He waits for us to impose upon Him. He also answers us in His ways not ours and often we misunderstand what is actually obvious. Blessings can sometimes be mistaken as curses and curses are always blessings. I had a stroke 1.5 years ago, parralllized my whole right side. Was it a curse or a blessing, I say it was a bless as I continue to be blessed by His revelations everyday. Name a bad situation and I will find blessing.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Yes it makes sense....He is more tangible than all others we just find it easier to ignore Him because He doesnt impose He waits for us to impose upon Him. He also answers us in His ways not ours and often we misunderstand what is actually obvious. Blessings can sometimes be mistaken as curses and curses are always blessings. I had a stroke 1.5 years ago, parralllized my whole right side. Was it a curse or a blessing, I say it was a bless as I continue to be blessed by His revelations everyday. Name a bad situation and I will find blessing.
...love you.
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:15 AM
 
17,955 posts, read 8,955,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
Jerwade: Now that is an interesting response....However:

Are you saying that God is so much a part of mankind that does not exist any differentiation between man and him? "Relational" conveys (to June's mind) the ability of two entities to interact, to inter-relate. Without separation that would not be possible. She would agree with you that it resides within the minds of men, as that is our primary (at times, our only) experience of it.

She's not so certain she understands your last sentence, however. Are you saying that God intentionally created a non-differentiation between himself and mankind, or are you saying that a "relational God" is simply not a viable otpion?

(Or is June just getting stupid here in her non-comprehension?)
The Spirit or Father, per se, is an integrated part of who we are – there has been no separation except that which exists within the minds of men, who convey only that of their own positionality.

In the previous post of "A Father’s Love Letter" it illustrates that all mankind are within the confines of the Spirits Love, but not all have this understanding. Therefore, they see themselves as being special, usually at the expense of another. Siblings will often strive for their fathers’ approval, and the competition seems to be between that of the youngest and eldest child. What I find interesting is that as a father, all of my children are loved equally and there is no differentiation or special treatment given, even if presently, some of them are not my
biological children.

Hope this made sense, or at least partially answered your question for the time being. And it is unlikely that you do not comprehend!
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Old 01-29-2011, 12:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Because you would be putting the cart in front of the horse. John 13:13-15 is not grace alone by faith alone as Jesus revealed.

Once you can understand that that is what God requires..then you will understand the correct relationship between faith and fruits of faith. I know you see it as foolish, but as God revealed:
Dear twin: Please, (perhaps what you think of June) try and suspend such judgements as June's thinking that what you wrote/quote as being foolish. That is a start....And a sincere one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

What June gleens from the above is that there is a necessary substance or in-dwelling of the Spirit that must take place prior to any form of understanding that she raised in her OP...She hopes that that is not the case...

Take gentle care, twin...
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:01 AM
 
7,789 posts, read 10,468,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
He is more tangible than all others we just find it easier to ignore Him because He doesnt impose He waits for us to impose upon Him.
Robin: June thinks (?) she understands what you are saying, however, it God were truly relational he wouldn't be waiting to "impose" upon us or anyone else what He waits for. It just would be. An inter-relationship. He would have no reason whatsoever for us to "impose" upon him; the relationship would naturally exist...

P.S. And by the way, June is VERY glad that you have recovered from what you went through. (Just felt she wanted to make that known to you, with genuine sincerity and love...)
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:30 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,830 posts, read 9,770,263 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
What June gleens from the above is that there is a necessary substance or in-dwelling of the Spirit that must take place prior to any form of understanding that she raised in her OP...She hopes that that is not the case...

That scripture does not apply to you June, because you are sincerely trying to understand and I know for a fact you DO NOT think that the things of God or His Spirit are foolishness!! I think that scripture that TwinSpin quoted may be referring to fully understanding scripture/the Bible but I don't believe you have to have the in-dwelling of the Holy Spirit to understand or search or question God. How does one find faith if they don't search first? Does that make sense?
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Old 01-29-2011, 05:16 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,290 posts, read 8,059,761 times
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Relational God......

God is and always has been a relational God, He created us to be relational people. That is why He created for Adam, Eve ! To me God creating Eve for Adam shows His heart of why He created the human ! That is why He said about Adam "it is not good for man to be alone".... therefore no one should be alone...... relationships are at the core of who we are as humans. It is in relationship that we find out who we are as humans, and what matters most in life.

Not one person wants to experience that dirty word.... "rejection" in their life, but sadly to say people choose to reject and separate themselves from other's for various reasons and is not a God thing !!

As we read He has since the beginning of time tried to stir up that relationship with His creation. One can read all the way up to this very day how He has/does reach down to a people who continuously reject Him !!

Also relationship is at the heart of the Christian faith, reflecting the fact that we as humans have been made for relationship. Jesus identifies the central message of the law and prophets relationally,
  • Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. (Mt 22:36-40)
All throughout Christianity's history, relationship has been the heart pulse of a vibrant faith, people speak of our need for a “personal relationship with Jesus Christ” and stress that “Christianity is about relationship not religion”.
As we read in the word of God, John so powerfully says, if we say we love God, but do not love our brother, then we are a deceiving ourselves. We cannot say we love God if we do not love those around us.

As relational beings we need both the personal and the social to be fully ourselves. I read once..... and believe that John Wesley said, there is “no holiness but social holiness”. If we take our definition of what it means to be holy from Jesus, then holiness does not mean separation, but a radical solidarity with the poor, the least, the unclean, and the sinner which would be any and everyone, sacrificing and striving for their liberation !
So my thoughts, Christ who is the very core of relationships shows us, the mark of holiness is LOVE...... starting with a relational God.... amen !!
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