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Old 01-29-2011, 09:46 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,044,309 times
Reputation: 117

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Sorry but God does not torture humans.

We cringe when we hear about the horrible torture that goes on in Iraq. We know the perpetrators are evil. Little children found floating down the Tigris river with drill holes in them.

And you want me to think God can be part Iraqi torturer and part Mother Theresa at the same time?

What kind of two faced God are you trying to get us to believe in?

If I found out my father was torturing little children I would do everything in my power to stop him. The same goes for this heavenly Father you have concocted. I would loath him. I would hate him.
Eusebius,

I did not for once assume that you are one for the milk teachings. Thought you dug deep Just as you raise the issue of an innocent child killed in the Iraq, have you thought for a moment about a man Called John the baptist who despite living a sinless life, despite baptizing the Lord, was beheaded in jail for no just cause? Who was responsible for that? Anyway have a look at these scriptures.

Quote:
Deuteronomy 32:39See now that I, [even] I, [am] he, and [there is] no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither [is there any] that can deliver out of my hand.
Quote:
1 Samuel 16:23And it came to pass, when the [evil] spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
Quote:
Isaiah 45:7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Quote:
Colossians 1:16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Quote:
Colossians 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

 
Old 01-29-2011, 09:53 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,044,309 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by dobeable View Post
the suffering that people take on in this life is the result of our punishment,pain is only temporary and always will be,we reap what we sow,its called justice and torture especially eternal torture dosent fit a God of Love,care and commpassion,our souls are eternal,theyve always existed in some sense,even if for a long time they were just particles of energy,spiritual energy,now we have form and personality,but the soul is still the soul eternal,when we come to realise and experience this soul,we will understand that ALL of life is a part of the Godhead and thats where we came from and thats where we return after,many a lifetime searching and learning on the material platform of existence,thats the way i see it anyway,nothing is coincidence,everything including pain and pleasure happen for a reason,its karmic,its fairer than fair,and its the way the eternal soul learns,even if we dont know we are learning,when we die we can look back at past lives and see our progress!!!!!!!!!


Not to sound patronizing, you are walking the narrow way of the truth. Sssshhhhh, not too loud. The ET & UR brigade will surely come after you, be ready!
 
Old 01-29-2011, 10:03 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Well, I believe the carnal nature (the seed of the first Adam) is God's target of wrath. As He crucified His own Son, so it is with our flesh.

God is not concerned with making us comfortable in this life imo, rather He has purposed to make sons through the trials and fires we face here. I want to side with Him and take each opportunity to ask Him to burn out the old man in me, so that His life is all that remains.

I die daily. (1 Cor 15:31)
God is not two faced ... he is very clear to those who have ears and eyes that will believe.

And those who die with the "seed of Adam" will never be able to enter, Luke 13:24,
will never be forgiven for they have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. Mark 3:29,
They have ears, but do not hear...eyes but do not see. For if they had, Jesus would have forgiven them. Mark 4:12
Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So, as the Holy Spirit says:
Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts ....
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful,
unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

 
Old 01-29-2011, 10:09 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,561,355 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
God is not two faced ... he is very clear to those who have ears and eyes that will believe.

And those who die with the "seed of Adam" will never be able to enter, Luke 13:24,
will never be forgiven for they have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. Mark 3:29,
They have ears, but do not hear...eyes but do not see. For if they had, Jesus would have forgiven them. Mark 4:12
Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So, as the Holy Spirit says:
Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts ....
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful,
unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

The point of my post is that believers are called to die to the flesh - news flash: the flesh is anti-Christ. The cross we are commanded to take up is nothing but a tool to put the bearer to death.

You can't have resurrection life without death (1 Cor 15:36).
 
Old 01-29-2011, 10:17 AM
 
910 posts, read 1,044,309 times
Reputation: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
God is not two faced ... he is very clear to those who have ears and eyes that will believe.

And those who die with the "seed of Adam" will never be able to enter, Luke 13:24,
will never be forgiven for they have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. Mark 3:29,
They have ears, but do not hear...eyes but do not see. For if they had, Jesus would have forgiven them. Mark 4:12
Hebrews 3:18-19
And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

So, as the Holy Spirit says:
Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts ....
See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful,
unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God.

Have you heard his voice twin? Do you practice his words? Are you blameless? God is talking about 100% but he who sets the exam had already known that no one can get a 100% in his exam. Is 50% not a pass mark? Will you fail a guy that scored 50% in your own exam?

Quote:
Luke 20:35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Well only 144,000 scored that 50% and the rest of us, with all our posturings or believes did not make the mark. It is clear that the other ones called are called by his grace, their efforts notwithstanding.

How come when he comes, even those who pierced him will see him? Remember he forgave all on the cross. A guy that preached love, he had to practice it first, and he did this on the cross by forgiving all. If you see my reply to Eusebius you can understand the nature of God.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,917,431 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Sorry but God does not torture humans.

We cringe when we hear about the horrible torture that goes on in Iraq. We know the perpetrators are evil. Little children found floating down the Tigris river with drill holes in them.

And you want me to think God can be part Iraqi torturer and part Mother Theresa at the same time?
Well, most URs do not believe in free will to torture or not torture, so using that logic it must have been God's hand directing the person drilling holes in the children.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 11:03 AM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,561,355 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well, most URs do not believe in free will to torture or not torture, so using that logic it must have been God's hand directing the person drilling holes in the children.
Scripture is clear regarding the sovereignty of God, but the "free moral agency" of man has clouded the water. This has caused a rejection of much of God’s sovereignty and has often reduced Him in people’s minds to a rather helpless old man who would like to do much, but can in reality do little, and a creator who began something without the end in mind, now needing the help of His error prone creatures to even salvage a fraction of His original intent

Many are downright patronizing to God, picturing Him wringing His hands in Heaven, and weeping impotently as the world He intended to save goes to Hell, and remains under the dominion of Satan permanently.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: East Coast
30,250 posts, read 20,001,723 times
Reputation: 2109
It's amazing what we attribute to God and blame him for.

Death and life [are] in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. Proverbs 18:21

According to this verse if death is on the tongue of God he will eat the fruit of it,so this verse tells me death is not of God.

For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. Matthew 15:19

Evil thoughts i believe are when we see a person different to how God see's them.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 11:23 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,821,504 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Have you heard his voice twin?
Yes I have. Here's how:
John 5:24
“I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life.

I believe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Do you practice his words?
Yes I do. Here's how:
Matthew 3:8
Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.

Matthew 28:19
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,


Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Are you blameless?
Yes I am in the sight of God. Here's how:
Hebrews 10:14
because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
God is talking about 100% but he who sets the exam had already known that no one can get a 100% in his exam. Is 50% not a pass mark? Will you fail a guy that scored 50% in your own exam?
No I will not fail because:
2 Corinthians 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Galatians 3:11
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”

Jesus took away my imperfection and gave me his perfection

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlbron View Post
Well only 144,000 scored that 50% and the rest of us, with all our posturings or believes did not make the mark. It is clear that the other ones called are called by his grace, their efforts notwithstanding.

How come when he comes, even those who pierced him will see him? Remember he forgave all on the cross. A guy that preached love, he had to practice it first, and he did this on the cross by forgiving all. If you see my reply to Eusebius you can understand the nature of God.
The 144,000 is a figurative number.
 
Old 01-29-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,709,605 times
Reputation: 842
Quote:
I think it is simplistic to assume that in our narrow world of UR and or ET, there is no divine truth in-between.
annihilation would be the exact in-between, virtually all judgments of God in the bible imply the literal destruction of the wicked, yet it is said that Sodom and Gommorah will be restored.

in the book of Daniel, God preserved the rigtheous in the fire, the wicked perished in the fire, even in the book of Revelation the punishment is death in most instances, why put emphasis on the fact that people are tormented and cannot die for months e.g. if they would suffer endless torment herafter, doesn't make sense, eh?
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