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Old 03-01-2015, 12:38 PM
 
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Consensual intercourse between two consenting adults is not a sin.
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Old 03-01-2015, 12:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
Consensual intercourse between two consenting adults is not a sin.
this, lol.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Brawndo-Thirst-Mutilator-Nation
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Yes, fornication is defined as sex between persons who are not married.............that IS a sin.
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Old 03-02-2015, 10:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Yes, fornication is defined as sex between persons who are not married.............that IS a sin.
Actually, the literal definition of "Fornication" as defined in the bible is "Prostitution" or "Porneia" (which is the actual word used) in Greek. Modern English Dictionaries aren't going to help you here. Describing it as "all sex outside of marriage" is not a biblically defined idea and was really developed later in the early church and middle ages. Now they used porneia in describing other acts such as incest and cultic (regular and sexual) worship in the bible, but never directly Premaritial sexual relations. This is partially why newer bible translations use the term "sexual Immorality" rather than "fornication" as a translation of porneia. Sexual immorality would at the time be considered any that that was directly defined a sin by the old testament or Jesus (since they didn't have the New Testament yet).

In the Old Testament, there was no rule (Torah Law) against having sexual relations with non-married women no longer living in their fathers house. Granted, Most women in such a situation would be considered a prostitute since they likely wouldn't have another means of getting by, but only "cultic prostitution" is defined as sin in the Old Testament. Even if they were still living in their fathers house, The man who slept with her would simply have to pay the full dowry and Marry her UNLESS the father objected to the marriage (dowry still required though). The only time it was a sin, is if no one knew who the man she slept with was. In this case, it would be a sin "for playing a harlot while living in her fathers house." This means no dowry could be paid to the father which would be theft and if there was a child, their family lineage might get could get corrupted which was a big no-no in hebrew culture...also, there was no law again men sleeping with an unmarried woman at all unless she was still in her fathers house.

Today our culture is radically different when it comes to the role and ability of women and the role and understanding of Marriage is also radically different since no ceremony was bibically required and neither was a state issued liicense. Many if not most women today are already out of their fathers house before they lose their virginity, their are no dowries, and women are capable of working without going into prostitution so arguably, these rules don't have any baring on us.

Could it still be considered a sin though? If you are Catholic?: yes, since you are at the mercy of what the Catholic Church defines as a sin. If you are Protestant?: maybe, but that depends on your conscience and your relationship with God and how you want to define sin. Sin as defined by the bible is anything listed in the Torah Law as sin, violates one's conscience, or is not done in faith or in love. There is some evidence that it might be God's "ideal" for people to be married first based on some of the things Paul says in the New Testament, but that doesn't make not following it a defined sin and the evidence itself is based on rules best suited for another culture. In my opinion, modern protestant Christianity needs to admit that this is a more complex issue than they have made it out to be and then it needs to stop screaming chastity until public state law marriage and start preaching personal responsibility which may or may not include total absinence. Given that our culture and education requirements have pushed a practical marriage more than a Decade beyond where it was in bible times, modern Christianity has a hard line to walk on this issue.

Last edited by Jrhockney; 03-02-2015 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
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I didn't lose my virginity. I disposed of it properly

However, I've been faithful and monogamous for about 19 years and while I have no guilt for what I did prior to my relationship, I'm happier to be in one.. and now married.
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Old 03-02-2015, 12:58 PM
Status: "Amused by BF." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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No.
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Old 03-02-2015, 01:14 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,962,669 times
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"By your words you'll be justified and by your words you'll be condemned. "

"Sin because they do not believe in me.

"The man who believes in me shall do the works I do "

"The words I speak are not my own, it is the Father who lives in me performing His works. "

"In the Lord shall be the vindication and the glory of all the descendents of Israel. "

" If the son frees you, shall trruly be free."
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Old 03-02-2015, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,446 posts, read 7,551,913 times
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Do Christians buy new (or used) cars without test driving them first?

In all seriousness though, how are you supposed to know whether you are sexually compatible with someone before you tie the knot if you don't give it a run beforehand? Or do Christians not believe that this type of issue is important? You know.... Since marriage is supposed to be permanent and all.....
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Old 03-02-2015, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,382 posts, read 3,849,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchlights View Post
Do Christians buy new (or used) cars without test driving them first?

In all seriousness though, how are you supposed to know whether you are sexually compatible with someone before you tie the knot if you don't give it a run beforehand? Or do Christians not believe that this type of issue is important? You know.... Since marriage is supposed to be permanent and all.....
This notion comes up a lot and I'll admit that at face value it seems logical. But scientific studies have found that those abstaining from sex before marriage gain the following benefits:
  • The the obvious stuff: Virtually no risk of STD's and minimal risk of becoming a single parent.
  • Greater psychological and emotional well-being.
  • Greater satisfaction with sex after marriage.
  • Greater overall happiness with their marriage and with life overall.
  • Higher academic achievement as well as higher income earning.
  • Significantly lower incidence of suicidal behavior, especially among women.
  • Decreased chances of divorce.

In this sexually overcharged world we live in, setting an "all or nothing" expectation for abstinence before marriage is probably unrealistic. But it's a bit like setting the goal to get your PHD. There's a very good chance you won't get there, but if you do manage it then the benefits are well worth all the sacrifice.

As to the "test driving a car" analogy, apparently sex is in no way similar. According to study after study after study, having multiple "test drive" partners before marriage leads to greater dissatisfaction after "purchasing a car."
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Old 03-02-2015, 02:15 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,319,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
But scientific studies have found that those abstaining from sex before marriage gain the following benefits:
  • The the obvious stuff: Virtually no risk of STD's and minimal risk of becoming a single parent.
  • Greater psychological and emotional well-being.
  • Greater satisfaction with sex after marriage.
  • Greater overall happiness with their marriage and with life overall.
  • Higher academic achievement as well as higher income earning.
  • Significantly lower incidence of suicidal behavior, especially among women.
  • Decreased chances of divorce.
Why am I guessing all the people who think science can't be trusted if it determines the earth is 4.5 billion years old will trust as absolute fact any scientific study that claims that?

Hmmmmmmmm.......
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