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Old 03-02-2015, 03:19 PM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,019,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
This notion comes up a lot and I'll admit that at face value it seems logical. But scientific studies have found that those abstaining from sex before marriage gain the following benefits:
  • The the obvious stuff: Virtually no risk of STD's and minimal risk of becoming a single parent.
  • Greater psychological and emotional well-being.
  • Greater satisfaction with sex after marriage.
  • Greater overall happiness with their marriage and with life overall.
  • Higher academic achievement as well as higher income earning.
  • Significantly lower incidence of suicidal behavior, especially among women.
  • Decreased chances of divorce.
In this sexually overcharged world we live in, setting an "all or nothing" expectation for abstinence before marriage is probably unrealistic. But it's a bit like setting the goal to get your PHD. There's a very good chance you won't get there, but if you do manage it then the benefits are well worth all the sacrifice.

As to the "test driving a car" analogy, apparently sex is in no way similar. According to study after study after study, having multiple "test drive" partners before marriage leads to greater dissatisfaction after "purchasing a car."
I think this has more to do with their value of Marriage and committment than just the act of "Testing the car" and I have seen a few counter studies in the past as well. If the value a couple places on their marriage vows or honor in general was strong as that of many traditional Christians, I don't think "testing the car" would be as detrimental if at all. In fact, It may determine not only whether people are sexually compatable, but more importantly, whether they are sexually functional. I'd be curious to see a study on the relationship of "functionality" as it corrisponds to divorce. Anyways, there are potential downsides to both approaches.
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Old 03-02-2015, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,569 posts, read 3,905,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrhockney View Post
I think this has more to do with their value of Marriage and commitment than just the act of "Testing the car" and I have seen a few counter studies in the past as well. If the value a couple places on their marriage vows or honor in general was strong as that of many traditional Christians, I don't think "testing the car" would be as detrimental if at all. In fact, It may determine not only whether people are sexually compatible, but more importantly, whether they are sexually functional. I'd be curious to see a study on the relationship of "functionality" as it corresponds to divorce. Anyways, there are potential downsides to both approaches.
"I don't think" is just unfounded supposition at this point. Your interpretation of the results doesn't change the results. I can offer my own spin on them as well. What we do know is that there are significant benefits for remaining abstinent -- most of which you did not address.

There is a significant problem with counter-studies too. It's the same problem you have with all those studies out there that keep finding that "alcohol is good for you!" that are later debunked. In both cases, justification for potentially self-destructive behavior that you want to justify introduces bias into the study, making the results unreliable. Most Americans drink and engaged in premarital sex. That means that studies claiming positive benefits are going to be wildly popular. They are telling folks exactly what they want to hear. With alcohol it's pretty clear: There is no conceivable way that ingesting a mild poison can be good for you. Whatever healthy benefits they find are either the result of hypothetical bias or they are positive ingredients in the beer or wine that can be readily obtained and taken without any need for imbibing the mild poison known as alcohol. Sex and marriage are a lot less clear-cut than that. But I do think we can agree that the same sort of "majority bias" exists in a big way when it comes to sex and marriage.

Also, one must define terms such as "sexually compatible" and "sexually functional." Tab A goes in slot B. It's pretty simple mechanics. It's not as though you're going to find out on your wedding night that you and your spouse can't actually consummate the marriage. Everything beyond that comes down to unselfishness and communication. I think that folks like myself who waited until marriage benefit tremendously from the available information that is out there today. But how do you imagine I would have benefited had I slept with 5 other women before we married? What about 10? What about 50? Why would my life be better today?

Last edited by godofthunder9010; 03-02-2015 at 04:52 PM.. Reason: typos, typos, typos
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,569 posts, read 3,905,241 times
Reputation: 2683
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Why am I guessing all the people who think science can't be trusted if it determines the earth is 4.5 billion years old will trust as absolute fact any scientific study that claims that?

Hmmmmmmmm.......
There is absolutely no question that the people of God in both Old and New Testaments believed in abstinence before marriage. Anyone saying otherwise hasn't actually read the scriptures.

I'm simply taking another line of thought. Not only has God been absolutely clear on the matter, but the entire social construct of marriage as the only acceptable outlet for sexual gratification has been proven on the unbelievers' prefered home turf: Science. I find this very very interesting. God knows what he's doing obviously.
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Old 03-02-2015, 05:17 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,471,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
Not only has God been absolutely clear on the matter, but the entire social construct of marriage as the only acceptable outlet for sexual gratification has been proven on the unbelievers' prefered home turf: Science.
Can you please post links to the scientific studies that prove it?

Last edited by DewDropInn; 03-02-2015 at 05:28 PM.. Reason: politeness
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Old 03-02-2015, 08:52 PM
Status: "Just a smidge dyspeptic." (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,530 posts, read 12,180,905 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Can you please post links to the scientific studies that prove it?
I'm looking forward to those as well.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,569 posts, read 3,905,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Can you please post links to the scientific studies that prove it?
*SIGH* I did this already in a different thread. But you make a fair point, I'll go find the info.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:47 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,471,746 times
Reputation: 32249
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
*SIGH* I did this already in a different thread. But you make a fair point, I'll go find the info.
Thanks.

*Sigh* I don't read every post in every thread. Do you?
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,569 posts, read 3,905,241 times
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Tell you what, just for convenience sake, I'll post it all into a new thread. Thinking about it, it's a little bit off topic from the original question as to whether sex before marriage was actually sinful.
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Old 03-03-2015, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Chicago Area
7,569 posts, read 3,905,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Thanks.

*Sigh* I don't read every post in every thread. Do you?
No I understand. Just feels like I'm doing the same work over again, that's all.
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Old 03-03-2015, 10:42 AM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,019,714 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010 View Post
"I don't think" is just unfounded supposition at this point. Your interpretation of the results doesn't change the results. I can offer my own spin on them as well. What we do know is that there are significant benefits for remaining abstinent -- most of which you did not address.

There is a significant problem with counter-studies too. It's the same problem you have with all those studies out there that keep finding that "alcohol is good for you!" that are later debunked. In both cases, justification for potentially self-destructive behavior that you want to justify introduces bias into the study, making the results unreliable. Most Americans drink and engaged in premarital sex. That means that studies claiming positive benefits are going to be wildly popular. They are telling folks exactly what they want to hear. With alcohol it's pretty clear: There is no conceivable way that ingesting a mild poison can be good for you. Whatever healthy benefits they find are either the result of hypothetical bias or they are positive ingredients in the beer or wine that can be readily obtained and taken without any need for imbibing the mild poison known as alcohol. Sex and marriage are a lot less clear-cut than that. But I do think we can agree that the same sort of "majority bias" exists in a big way when it comes to sex and marriage.

Also, one must define terms such as "sexually compatible" and "sexually functional." Tab A goes in slot B. It's pretty simple mechanics. It's not as though you're going to find out on your wedding night that you and your spouse can't actually consummate the marriage. Everything beyond that comes down to unselfishness and communication. I think that folks like myself who waited until marriage benefit tremendously from the available information that is out there today. But how do you imagine I would have benefited had I slept with 5 other women before we married? What about 10? What about 50? Why would my life be better today?
I'm not here to argue that premarital sex is necessarily better than obstaining in terms of overall benefits, but I think the reasons I listed are quite a valid. Differing libidos, functionality, and even fertility to some degree can be major stressors on any marriage and there is a good chance that they will not change during the course of a marriage. Most couples who don't have premarital sex may be fine, but many have run into the problems listed above when they would have otherwise known before they committed for life (I've also meant many personally. On top of that, expecting all christians to wait a full decade+ past puberty is making us into a joke...a joke I think even early Christians would laugh at given the age they could realistically marry in their culture. If they can do it, great...their in the vast minority and its not going to get any "better" unless we start bringing "do this and you're dead" type rules...which would probably make most of them dechristianize or move to a different country ;p

In terms of the other reasons you listed, most of them were psychological and its hard to really get a bearing on how the people in the studies would really feel if they had been more responsible with their sex lives. Of course they will likely have more emotional stress than others because alot of them likely have distructive view of sexuality and/or have a religiously based guilt trip about their sex lives because of stigma. I would be surprised if any of the popular studies on this topic took these things into account. Religious Stigma can have a huge effect. If the studies are accurate about Atheists and Agnostics (who don't have any premarital sex rules) having a lower divorce rate than everyone else, its kinda hard not to perceive a major religious guilt aspect at play.

Lastly, I don't think theres any benefit in numbers in terms of "scorecard." Quite the opposite actually. Sleeping around alot can be very distructive Psychologically for most people (not all according to one study I saw), but that doesn't mean we equate "premarital sex" with "sleeping around." Anyways, if you find those studies you mentioned, you can just post a link to the thread if you want. Lets try not to get too off topic either since this thread is about whether losing virginity is a sin before marriage.
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