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Old 01-31-2011, 06:47 PM
 
138 posts, read 139,296 times
Reputation: 23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Oh Good Gravy Marie!!!

If anyone is interested in why man was created and why man has free will, and why human history plays out as it does, go to my thread and learn something about the angelic conflict. www.city-data.com/forum/christianity/885157-angelic-conflict-spiritual-warfare.html

I think that I shall not post again on this particular thread.

There are no angels with wings in heaven. That is a myth. The name angel replaced another name describing God's first creation, light energy. This light is the angel and where everyone came from but pagan religious people added these things into the scriptures. The Bible became a religious book instead of a testimony to this light power of God's.

I know without reading your blog that it came from the flesh and not from God.

 
Old 01-31-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,264 posts, read 20,865,688 times
Reputation: 9950
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjhulk View Post
Freewill is something that disappears when the will of God is forced to be obeyed.
You know, I was going to say that's the only accurate statement you made. In rethinking it, a number of your statements were true. Free will allows us to be disobedient. Disobedience, however, is not without consequences.

Last edited by Katzpur; 01-31-2011 at 08:53 PM..
 
Old 02-01-2011, 07:21 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjhulk View Post
This freewill writing is a sarcastic approach to revealing the truth that there is no free will.

Go read it again until you understand that it's impossible that free will can be a part of God's will.

For the most part the term free will is given a definition then applied to the bible rather than letting scripture define the nature of mans will with out terms that are largely misunderstood.

Few that I know that preach no free will are understanding of what it implies for themselves, they do not address it head on and reliquish to the facts.

No, what they do is operate in a manner of someone who is free to choose to post in a forum and argue from a philosophical level about something that cannot be applied to their daily life in any useful manner.

So as you preach this "plan" of Gods where no one has any freedom of will whatsoever, it probably never occured to you that if Gods plan included a rapist to rape and they had no possibility of choosing to do something else, then you have no assurance at all, that God has not picked you to one day commit an evil act on someone else.

From this point of view, any effort you make to stay in the word, to pray, to seek being better, "running the race", is irrelevant, it means nothing because at any moment, if it is in Gods plan, you could throw that all away and go do something evil and shameful and you will have no control over it.

So far, this idea when presented to no free willers has been met with a denial of sorts, but that is the very fact of no free will, no matter what you believe, if you have no free will and it is of God that all these bad things happen, then you really have no control over going and doing a bad thing. Believing you weon't is pointless because you have no free will.

Some try to skirt around this by saying "God does it indirectly" Well so do crime bosses, but none of that changes anything, How God can make YOU go do something EVIL according to this line of reasoning is moot.

The idea is ridiculous, and if you were attacked tomorrow and someone told you it wasn't their fault, they have no free will, you really wouldn't accept that. NO ONE EVER DOES, because it's BS.

Last edited by Phazelwood; 02-01-2011 at 07:30 AM..
 
Old 02-01-2011, 07:30 AM
 
138 posts, read 139,296 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You know, I was going to say that's the only accurate statement you made. In rethinking it, a number of your statements were true. Free will allows us to be disobedient. Disobedience, however, is not without consequences.

It's not free will that allows you to be disobedient. It's God's plans that a disobedient sinner is living and if you weren't chosen to be an obedient saint who will never sin again, you will remain a sinner until your planned death.

God planned everything, not just a few things.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 07:45 AM
 
138 posts, read 139,296 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
For the most part the term free will is given a definition then applied to the bible rather than letting scripture define the nature of mans will with out terms that are largely misunderstood.

Few that I know that preach no free will are understanding of what it implies for themselves, they do not address it head on and reliquish to the facts.

No, what they do is operate in a manner of someone who is free to choose to post in a forum and argue from a philosophical level about something that cannot be applied to their daily life in any useful manner.

So as you preach this "plan" of Gods where no one has any freedom of will whatsoever, it probably never occured to you that if Gods plan included a rapist to rape and they had no possibility of choosing to do something else, then you have no assurance at all, that God has not picked you to one day commit an evil act on someone else.

From this point of view, any effort you make to stay in the word, to pray, to seek being better, "running the race", is irrelevant, it means nothing because at any moment, if it is in Gods plan, you could throw that all away and go do something evil and shameful and you will have no control over it.

So far, this idea when presented to no free willers has been met with a denial of sorts, but that is the very fact of no free will, no matter what you believe, if you have no free will and it is of God that all these bad things happen, then you really have no control over going and doing a bad thing. Believing you weon't is pointless because you have no free will.

Some try to skirt around this by saying "God does it indirectly" Well so do crime bosses, but none of that changes anything, How God can make YOU go do something EVIL according to this line of reasoning is moot.

The idea is ridiculous, and if you were attacked tomorrow and someone told you it wasn't their fault, they have no free will, you really wouldn't accept that. NO ONE EVER DOES, because it's BS.

I was an alcoholic when God revealed himself to me in 1979. He had a plan all worked out for me to follow and all I had to do was obey his commands.

Once he made me a sinless saint and I received his knowledge, he gave me visions of the past on how he worked with me when I didn't know it. He even gave me a dream at the age of five years old that hasn't happened yet. This dream is about my pending death.

God planned everything, even the worst and most hideous events and crimes during this age. The most disgusting murderer to ever exist was formed by God to be that way.

God made everyone a sinner through the DNA to keep them confused while he worked with his prophets, Jesus and saints. These genetic sin traits give power to deceive the thoughts of a sinner and this makes them disobey the law and commandments that were designed to condemn the flesh to death.

With the exception of the messiah who we call Jesus, all the prophets and us saints were sinners to start with. According to God's timing and plans, he began to work with us and I was only 25 years old at the time he started his work with me. The first thing he did was to get me sober. Later on, he got me to stop smoking three packs of cigarettes a day.

For the next 25 years, everything went according to God's plans, not mine. Once you get in the will of God and see how he works, then you understand there's no such thing as free will. That is a term to excuse a sinner's actions so he can always say he made the wrong decision. It's also a way for religious sinners to condemn other sinners for making the wrong choices in life.

We saints know that everyone's flesh is like a puppet and the thoughts they're created with is their life and how they will live it. A homosexual is genetically made to be a homosexual and there's nothing a man can do to change that fact. There might be a few who deny their desires and live a life without being involved with another man but this is the same thing with alcoholics, drug addicts, obese people, lazy people, greedy people, and the list goes on and on. Even ugly women put layers of makeup on to deny their ugliness.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,233,863 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjhulk View Post
I was an alcoholic when God revealed himself to me in 1979. He had a plan all worked out for me to follow and all I had to do was obey his commands...
...so bjhulk, you state that "all I had to do was obey his commands..." Do you keep the seventh day (Friday night to Saturday night) Sabbath holy unto God, and do no work on this day...?...the Fourth Commandment?
 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:11 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjhulk View Post
I was an alcoholic when God revealed himself to me in 1979. He had a plan all worked out for me to follow and all I had to do was obey his commands.

But since you don't have free will, there is no "all I had to do". Showing you do not actually believe what you are talking about.


Quote:
We saints know that everyone's flesh is like a puppet and the thoughts they're created with is their life and how they will live it.
Yes, and here is the false presentation of who you are, you try to skirt around God causing you to go do more evil deeds because of course you are a chosen saint, of which you cannot demonstrate other than your free will to believe that you are one.

You think you have found the loophole to your own behavior and what God will do with you in the future by propping yourself up as someone who God has made sinless therefore God would not cause you to go do something evil. However, the idea doesn't add up.

If Gods plan is perfect and that "plan" included causing someone to go do something evil and they has nothing to do with that choice, then there is NOTHING that will prevent him in the future from causing YOU to go do something evil too. After all, it is never about what YOU believe, since you have no free will, WHAT YOU SAY YOU WON'T GO DO IS ALL AN ILLUSION.


All the presentation of people doing evil things from this point on is not you, it is in a tense that excludes yourself.

Fact is most no free willers only pretend that they have gotten over what they have did in their own life, rather than taking responsibility for it, they excuse themselves with a God of their design.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:22 AM
 
138 posts, read 139,296 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...so bjhulk, you state that "all I had to do was obey his commands..." Do you keep the seventh day (Friday night to Saturday night) Sabbath holy unto God, and do no work on this day...?...the Fourth Commandment?

I obeyed the voice of God who is the law and commandments. This power will destroy all flesh very soon.

Do you think Jesus and the other saints worked on the sabbath? Once you're made a sinless saint, the law and commandments have no affect because you become the law and commandments of God. God uses our flesh to do whatever he pleases and we just follow along.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:26 AM
 
138 posts, read 139,296 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
But since you don't have free will, there is no "all I had to do". Showing you do not actually believe what you are talking about.




Yes, and here is the false presentation of who you are, you try to skirt around God causing you to go do more evil deeds because of course you are a chosen saint, of which you cannot demonstrate other than your free will to believe that you are one.

You think you have found the loophole to your own behavior and what God will do with you in the future by propping yourself up as someone who God has made sinless therefore God would not cause you to go do something evil. However, the idea doesn't add up.

If Gods plan is perfect and that "plan" included causing someone to go do something evil and they has nothing to do with that choice, then there is NOTHING that will prevent him in the future from causing YOU to go do something evil too. After all, it is never about what YOU believe, since you have no free will, WHAT YOU SAY YOU WON'T GO DO IS ALL AN ILLUSION.


All the presentation of people doing evil things from this point on is not you, it is in a tense that excludes yourself.

Fact is most no free willers only pretend that they have gotten over what they have did in their own life, rather than taking responsibility for it, they excuse themselves with a God of their design.

When a sinner uses excuses to deny the truth, they will die a sinner without ever knowing the true God.

I could care less if you believe in free will or not. On the day you die, you will learn that you have no will whatsoever.
 
Old 02-01-2011, 08:38 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,725 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjhulk View Post
When a sinner uses excuses to deny the truth, they will die a sinner without ever knowing the true God.
But if they have no free will then they have died a sinner at Gods hand and they are not actually the ones denying anything.

The sinner hasn't used anything, since they have no free will all they do is from an outside source, they cannot reason or contemplate doing anything else.

The problem is that you exclude yourself from such reasoning proving you and no "no free willer" actually believes it.
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