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Old 02-01-2011, 09:09 PM
 
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The unbeliever has a dead heart that is referred to as a heart of stone. The bible paints the unbeliever as dead in His sin. He has as much ability to choose to become a believer as a dead man has the choice to come to life.
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Are you saying that if a person sincerely seeks to know God, there's a good chance that God is simply going to turn His back on him because he wasn't on the "Elect List"?
I have been studying this issue of limited vs unlimited. I have goggled "limited atonement vs unlimited atonement", "limited atonement vs free will", "elect vs non-elect", "calvinism vs arminianism" and have read every link in the first two pages of each---that's a total of roughly 80 website dealing with this topic and after swinging from unlimited (Arminianism) to limited (Calvinism) I must conclude that there are just too many scriptures that use "all, everyone, & the world" to justify a viewpoint that God chose some to redemption and chose others to be sent to hell. The Calvinist opinion that these words refer to the elect just doesn't wash, particularly the use of the word "kosmos" which denotes the entire world and everyone in it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:18 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I have been studying this issue of limited vs unlimited. I have goggled "limited atonement vs unlimited atonement", "limited atonement vs free will", "elect vs non-elect", "calvinism vs arminianism" and have read every link in the first two pages of each---that's a total of roughly 80 website dealing with this topic and after swinging from unlimited (Arminianism) to limited (Calvinism) I must conclude that there are just too many scriptures that use "all, everyone, & the world" to justify a viewpoint that God chose some to redemption and chose others to be sent to hell. The Calvinist opinion that these words refer to the elect just doesn't wash, particularly the use of the word "kosmos" which denotes the entire world and everyone in it.
There are a few of us who believe that God chooses his elect, but we're not Calvinists. Some people are just meant to be saved in this lifetime, some in the next. Don't know why, but obviously that's the way it is. That's why UR makes so much sense.
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Old 02-12-2011, 02:47 PM
 
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Default God' Elect

Thrillobyte, you are correct in saying there are two groups of Christians. There are actually three groups of people, based on the three main harvest crops: barley, wheat, and grape. The first is a group of God's elect that will rise from the dead in the first resurrection and reign with Christ for 1,000 years and will be saved from the lake of fire. These are the Barley Overcomers. The second, is the wheat group or Christian believers who will rise from the dead in the second resurrection, but still be saved from the lake of fire. The third are the non-believers who will rise from the dead in the second resurrection, but will be thrown into the lake of fire. For more details on this, see my article on the overcomers: Overcomers God Bless.
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Old 02-14-2011, 07:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lucknow View Post
The bible tells us that no one seeks it. It's only by God drawing them to himself that men seek Him. I really don't know why this concept that is taught all over the bible is so difficult for saved people to accept as the truth. Even in your statement that God does not elect is very hard for me to understand when the bible refers to God's people as the ELECT. The chosen race, The adopted, The children of the promise. These are but a fraction of hundreds of teachings in the bible regarding who are the children of God and how they became the children of God. The pride of man does not want to accept that the natural man is at emnity with God. He wants nothing to do with God and the gospel is an offence to that man period.
Lucknow... I think that most if not all who like the doctrine of election like it because they presume they are of the elect.

See, if God only elects ME and not anyone else, I doubt you'll see the doctrine of election as a fair one. And, btw, even if you do consider yourself elect, check out Calvin's teaching on the temporary faith in Luke 13. John Calvin taught that some people are granted temporary faith, giving them the appearance and feel of genuine elect, while these remain reprobate.

If you happen to be one of these with a temp faith, all of a sudden the election is not so glorious... is it?
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Old 02-14-2011, 08:53 AM
 
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We have a will but it is formed by the circumstance and events in our lifes. Does God cause those circumstanse and events--Yes.

God chooses his elect from the weak and lowly to confound the wise. He used untalented and unremarkable people to acomplish great things. This shows the power of God. God calls to service those he has predetermined to accomplish what he has ordained.

God is not a respecter of persons, that means that if he saves one he will save all. I know many here disagree with that, but if he only saves certain ones he is a repecter of persons.

Nothing is to tough for God. Can he change our will? Look at Saul on the road to Damasus. He was going there to persucute followers of Christ, that was his will. Jesus stuck him down with a bolt of light and in short order Saul's will was changed to agree with God's will. Oh Saul changed his will alright but it was the only thing he could do. God knew exactly how to reach him and cause him to change, and believe me at that point he wanted to change. Do you think that you are able to resist God when he changes your will?
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