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Old 01-31-2011, 06:06 PM
 
138 posts, read 139,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Is that how it's defined somewhere, or just your opinion?

The only one who needs to verify it is God who performed the miracle. The person he performs the miracle for is someone he's working with to make him a sinless saint. No one else around the saint will understand this miracle so that's why it can't be verified except by God.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:15 PM
 
2,945 posts, read 4,775,748 times
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Plenty of so called christians pray for healing and other things that never happen. Plenty of non christians wish for things that due happen. When a so called christian gets something they asked or prayed for,they think God is great..he answered my prayer. But more often than not,they don`t get what they pray for. We are to pray that God`s will be done. Whether it`s something we want or not. God`s will shall be done. Prayer is to help conform our minds and will to his will. God doesn`t give us what WE want. He has a plan. He gives us what HE wants.
A person can pray till the cows come home but if it isn`t God`s will, it isn`t going to happen.
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:16 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,310,831 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV View Post
How does God answer prayer today? Curiously, I find that there are Christian theologians who teach that prayer changes nothing. That it's more of a means to get us to conform to the will of God and nothing else.

But if that's true, why pray for a need (i.e for a job, for healing, etc..)?

And if God does answer prayers, what proofs can you guys provide?

I'm a Christian, but I'm reconsidering some of my convictions....
Chilean Miner Talks about God of Miracle in U.K. | Christianpost.com
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:17 PM
 
624 posts, read 867,089 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
.....
LDS songwriter, Michael McLean, wrote a beautiful song about this. Here are the words to that song... "A mansion on a hill, a love like in the movies, Perfect little dreams where no one has a problem. Instead of all those things I thought I really wanted, Iíve been given what I need. Even when I didnít understand, When I thought you had no heart, Thank you for rejecting my demands And always giving me the better part. All I ever wanted, all I ever I dreamed of, Everything I hoped and all the things I prayed for Couldnít hold a candle to what Iíve been given. Iíve been given what I need."

I try to see prayer as a means by which I can grow closer to my Heavenly Father. Even though He knows my every need and does not need any reminders from me as to what they are, I believe He is pleased when I acknowledge that He is the source of every good thing I have in this life. When I tell Him that I have faith in Him, what I am really doing is telling Him that I trust Him to do what's best for me. I believe that in this way, I am showing Him the honor and respect He so deserves.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. But something is puzzling for me. In my view (and that of the mainstream theology), LDS is not considered orthodox Christian, so how could God answer a prayer like that?

Also, it seems very odd that God would fix a bell, but not cure cancer. We are praying for co-worker's wife today, stage 3 (possibly 4) breast cancer. She is about 36-38 years old. Two young kids. Why could God fix a bell, but not cancer?
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Old 01-31-2011, 06:33 PM
 
624 posts, read 867,089 times
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In my opinion, calling the rescue a miracle is one example of seeing a miracle in everything to the point where it's impossible to have a non-miracle.

Is this how God answers today?

I was at a church camp last weekend, and the owner talked about the miracle of God. Apparently, one of the employees of the camp had an accident, that caused some pretty bad damage to the life and property of another. The camp owner thought they had insurance, but in reality, the exact situation that happened was not covered (no details other than these were shared).

The victim of the accident hired a law firm and sued the camp. They subpoenaed their books and decided to sue for $1MM. The miracle was in the fact that this camp would have changed owners by the end of January had 1MM miraculously not been provided.

So, I thought about it, and it does not make sense to me. Why would God allow the accident and the 1MM judgment, so the law firm no doubt could benefit in part, instead of preventing the accident in the first place?
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:41 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,917,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV View Post
In my opinion, a miracle is something that only God can do. In the NT we read that Jesus would give sight to the blind, make lame walk, dead were raised. These are not things that were not verifiable by even the unbelievers. I.e. in the case of Lazarus, people witnessed him buried, etc... so him walking out of the tomb was a miracle that only God could do.

Otherwise, how can we judge whether a miracle has taken place today? Unless we start calling everything a miracle, right? Like ..."Oh.. I woke up today... what a miracle"

But was it really?
I don't know exactly how I would describe a miracle, but I'm not sure that "verifiable" would be a requirement. I mean verifiable by whom? For instance, hypothetically speaking, something "miraculous" could happen with only one person witnessing it. Just for the sake of argument, would it not qualify as a miracle unless it was witnessed by two or more people?
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Old 01-31-2011, 08:59 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,917,166 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV View Post
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and experiences. But something is puzzling for me. In my view (and that of the mainstream theology), LDS is not considered orthodox Christian, so how could God answer a prayer like that?
Are you really suggesting that God only answers the prayers of "mainstream Christians"? That is seriously beyond comprehension to me. I've always been taught that He knows each and every one of us personally and loves us all equally. It has never even occured to me that He would simply tune out if a person of the wrong religion approached Him in prayer. I guess that misconception arises out of my non-orthodox and decidedly "un-Christian" understanding of Him.

Quote:
Also, it seems very odd that God would fix a bell, but not cure cancer.
Yes, it does. I can understand that dilemma. I wouldn't even presume to try to second-guess God's reasons for doing anything He does, but I do believe that in the example I gave of God fixing the bell, He knew that my very child-like faith would be given a lifelong "booster shot" by His doing so. I was so absolutely convinced that He was going to fix that bell that I believe He did it solely for the purpose of confirming my faith in Him. Of course, I have had to learn over the course of my lifetime, that there are going to be times when I don't get what I ask for, even when it's for something much, much more important than fixing a bell.

Quote:
We are praying for co-worker's wife today, stage 3 (possibly 4) breast cancer. She is about 36-38 years old. Two young kids. Why could God fix a bell, but not cancer?
That's really a heartbreaking situation. I wish I had an answer for you, but I don't. I could make an attempt at an answer, but it would undoubtedly be unsatisfactory. I guess we just can't understand why God does what He does sometimes. I don't think it means that He's not there or doesn't care about us. I simply don't have a good answer, one that wouldn't come across as "trite."
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Old 02-01-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 4,904,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV View Post
How does God answer prayer today? Curiously, I find that there are Christian theologians who teach that prayer changes nothing. That it's more of a means to get us to conform to the will of God and nothing else.

But if that's true, why pray for a need (i.e for a job, for healing, etc..)?

And if God does answer prayers, what proofs can you guys provide?

I'm a Christian, but I'm reconsidering some of my convictions....
This might seem bad but I have several answered prayer I would like to share....

When I became a Christian I prayed that the Lord would remove obstacles to my walk and within a year I lost my father, grandfather, my business, and the answer didnt stop there, the next year we lost our house and my other business as well as my wifes business and was alienated from my brother and mother.

4 years ago I prayed to lose weight and 1.5 years ago I had a stroke and ended up losing 60lbs.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 5,291,776 times
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I am the example of an answered prayer....so are all of you.
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Old 02-01-2011, 06:39 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 9,825,065 times
Reputation: 1302
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigV View Post
How does God answer prayer today? Curiously, I find that there are Christian theologians who teach that prayer changes nothing. That it's more of a means to get us to conform to the will of God and nothing else.

But if that's true, why pray for a need (i.e for a job, for healing, etc..)?

And if God does answer prayers, what proofs can you guys provide?

I'm a Christian, but I'm reconsidering some of my convictions....
First I would question the theologians. They're not speaking for God with such statements.

Far too many want to put people under works righteousness .. "getting us to to conform" is just exactly that. Christians are not under law but under grace. God hears the prayers of Christians and answers them accordingly because of his love and grace for believers.

Scripture is full of answered prayers, also the food supply for this country and many other countries are answered by a farmers that do a lot of praying.
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